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Primary School Application Fraud

(42 Posts)
Whattodo3 Thu 10-Apr-14 08:47:56

Ok I have name changed for this, for fear of outing myself.

My friend lives in a rented property and has been served notice to move out this summer, as the LL wants to move back in.

Thing is the house is in the catchment for the outstanding school in the town and both my friend and LL have used the address to apply for school places. The LL lives over 100 miles away at the moment so I understand why she's done it but it just doesn't seem right.

I thought the CC would have picked up on it but they haven't.

Should I butt out or report the LL?

BackOnlyBriefly Thu 10-Apr-14 08:56:50

Did the LL always intend to move back in and therefore expect to BE in the catchment area? If so it made sense to get their child in the local school. It obeyed the spirit of the law if not the letter.

Are you angry that friend most move?

Iwillorderthefood Thu 10-Apr-14 08:58:36

She needed to apply for a school place, and she has no other address right now, this being the case what was she supposed to do? Once she has her new address, she needs to get advice regarding her application, how will a change of address at this point impact in her application? My friend planned to move house, but did not know where they would move. In the event they got their school place, and completed on their new out of catchment house a couple of weeks following this. She had no other address, and was advised to apply using their current address.

I do not think she is committing fraud, unless she knows with certainty her new address.

lougle Thu 10-Apr-14 09:09:20

I think the OP is thinking that the LL had committed fraud. I Think you're right, op, but unsure... You could check with the council without naming to find out. Your friend has not committed fraud.

Whattodo3 Thu 10-Apr-14 09:10:16

That is exactly what my friend is/has done. It's the Ll who isn't acting properly - the rules state they can only apply once they've moved which will be as a late applicant.

Whattodo3 Thu 10-Apr-14 09:11:01

Just to make it clear my friend isn't in the wrong - the LL is!!

Sirzy Thu 10-Apr-14 09:11:54

If the LL owns the house, and can show he intends to be living there come the start of the school year (which he can as he has given them notice to leave) then I am not sure there is much wrong with it. He could hardly apply for a school 100 miles away from where he intents to be living

CountessOfRule Thu 10-Apr-14 09:12:34

A friend has moved after the application deadline but before the admissions are announced. She has had to keep the LA in the loop and provide all sorts of paperwork.

Given that you haven't seen the LL's application, which might well be completely legitimate and honest, I'd think your friend is the one likely to be in trouble. Has she declared her new address?

KristinaM Thu 10-Apr-14 09:13:28

I don't see how the LL has done anything wrong. She already owns the property. She is going to be living there before the child starts school .

I assume you are not suggesting that the child is going to be commuting daily from 100 miles away and they are only using the address to get the child into school????

KristinaM Thu 10-Apr-14 09:24:03

If you report it, the LL will simply ask your friend to move out sooner. She will be able to show that she has given notice to quit and has a reasonable expectation to be living there before the child starts in school.

The LL will still get her child into the school and your friend will be inconvenienced. The LL will know it was her who reported it and won't give her a great reference for her next rental .

This won't affect your friend getting her child into the school she simply has to rent another properyt in the catchment area. The LL has given her plenty notice to do so .

What do you hope to gain by reporting this? I can't see how it's affecting you. Or anyone else for that matter. The two places will go to children who both live in the area. What's your problem ?

BackOnlyBriefly Thu 10-Apr-14 09:28:49

I suspect this is about the OP (not a friend) having to move and wanting to spite the LL I think.

Why else would someone by getting worked up over the exact details of their friend's, LLs application and how would they know the details of it

Floggingmolly Thu 10-Apr-14 09:29:38

If any application could be considered fraudulent, it's your friend's...
She knows she won't be living in the house at the relevant time, and her landlord will.

Littlemisstax Thu 10-Apr-14 09:36:07

You might want to repost in Primary Education as there's lots of admissions experts there. From my limited knowledge I think the LL is in the wrong as you must apply from the address you live at

meditrina Thu 10-Apr-14 09:44:45

"If the LL owns the house, and can show he intends to be living there come the start of the school year (which he can as he has given them notice to leave) then I am not sure there is much wrong with it. He could hardly apply for a school 100 miles away from where he intents to be living"

This is only true if the LL is a member of the Armed Forces, and has a valid posting order or Co's letter indicating date of move.

Everyone else can apply only when they move. LL would have to apply from an address hundreds of miles away, or as a late applicant when arrived in the new area. Just like everyone else, and just like it says in the Admissions Code.

So if LL applied, using the address, for the normal round in January when they were living elsewhere, then yes they have made a fraudulent application though probably a well-intentioned one).

I would report, because I do not think the current system, warts and all is improved by errors in how it is applied.

meditrina Thu 10-Apr-14 09:47:11

"If any application could be considered fraudulent, it's your friend's...
She knows she won't be living in the house at the relevant time, and her landlord will."

OP: can you confirm which admissions round you mean. Is it for admission in September 2014? Because if so, the date that was relevant was where you were living at close of applications in mid January. That would make the LL wrong.

poorincashrichinlove Thu 10-Apr-14 09:52:07

At the time of applying, you friend was/is resident at the house. That's what matters to the LA and your friend has done no wrong. LL on the has acted fraudulantly, but if. LL is moving back in and needs a school place, what's the harm. Live and let live OP

Whattodo3 Thu 10-Apr-14 09:53:05

I'm not the Tenant but the reason I'm bothered is that we live right on the edge of where places go out to and to be honest if there's one places up for grabs I'd rather my son got it than someone who has applied dishonestly.

So far all the posts supporting the LL seem to be under the misapprehension that the LL has done nothing wring, The point is the LL has broken the rules and it wasn't unintended it was deliberate as my friend was worrying that it may put her in an awkward situation and she contacted the Council to check what she needed to do.

BackOnlyBriefly Thu 10-Apr-14 11:54:34

Isn't the point of the law to ensure that someone who is living in the area can apply to use a local school? and won't the LL be living in the area when it matters and want to use a local school?

BackOnlyBriefly Thu 10-Apr-14 11:59:16

as for your 'friend' as long as she now tells them she may not be living in the area when the time comes that isn't a problem. They don't arrest people for moving house after applying.

MirandaWest Thu 10-Apr-14 11:59:50

If someone moves to the area after places are allocated then they wouldn't automatically get a place, even if they did move into the catchment area.

I'm not sure what the situation is when someone owns a property but isn't living there when places are allocated. I automatically thought that they wouldn't have any priority. And I don;t see how two people can legitimately apply from the same property. Something is wrong somehow.

Your friend should be all right as when places are allocated she will still live at the property. She will need to find somewhere else to live but I don't think the place can be taken away.

My gut feeling is that the landlord should not have applied given that they didn't live there at the time. Does the information on the LEAs website help at all?

MirandaWest Thu 10-Apr-14 12:05:51

Have looked at my LEAs website and it's pretty clear:

The LA is determined to prevent
fraudulent applications for school
places. Parent/carers can only use
one address when making an
This must be the address at which
the parent/carer and child are
ordinarily resident at the time of

I don't think the Landlord was ordinarily resident at the date of the application. And so it could easily prevent someone who should have got a place in getting one.

Enjoyingmycoffee Thu 10-Apr-14 12:07:54

As far as I can see, the LL hasn't done much wrong. She applied for the place before she was actually living there, but clearly her intention is to live in the house before the schoo l term commences, hence giving your friend notice.

MirandaWest Thu 10-Apr-14 12:11:28

Yes, but she wasn't living there when she applied. My LEA (and presumably others) says that the parent and child must be ordinarily resident at the time of application. What is the difference where someone moves into the area and intends to live there? I'm not sure that owning a property actually makes a difference here.

I am of course not an expert (hopefully one of them will see this and can advise).

kilmuir Thu 10-Apr-14 12:12:27

I thought you had ti be living in residence when making application

BackOnlyBriefly Thu 10-Apr-14 12:14:25

Imagine you live in Birmingham, but have bought a house in London and will be moving into it in a weeks time (ages before school starts).

Obviously you would apply for a school in London. To apply for one in Birmingham would be ludicrous.

You may be able to find some way to cause trouble for the LL in the letter of the law, but that would be pointless and nasty as the intent of the law is on LLs side.

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