Milk in cereal for 8 mo supposedly fine but...

[winnybella]

...read that it can cause intestinal bleeding that can cause anemia?
DD is bf and I hate to buy those huge cans of formula just for breakfast because I never use them up in 4 weeks, after which time they are supposedly not good anymore.
Hmmmm...is it definitely ok? I suspect if I ask dd's doctor she'll says no way, as we're in France and they are all paranoid about everything.
Anyone heard anything about that bleeding thing? I read it in the 'What to expect.. book.

[Jojay]

Well I've never heard that before.

As far as I know cows milk (which I asssume you're talking about) is fine after 6 months on cereal and in cooking.

If you want to use small amounts of formula though, can't you buy the little ready made cartons?

[Pingpong]

never heard of it!
In the UK they tell you cows milk is fine from 6m onwards for in food eg cheese sauce or on cereal but they shouldn't have it as a drink until 12m as it is too filling and not nutritional enough (compared to BM or FF)

[Pingpong]

sorry x post with Jojay

[theyoungvisiter]

I have NEVER heard this. Milk in cooking is supposed to be fine from 6 months on.

Maybe if the child were allergic to cow's milk, but surely you would know that?

If you are paranoid you could buy those titchy cartons but since they are made from cows milk anyway, it wouldn't help even if they DID have an allergy.

[winnybella]

Thank you all. No, DD's not allergic to cow's milk. Just thought "What to expect..." books were pretty reliable.
Guess it's fine.

[Pingpong]

never heard of 'what to expect....' books either!
Dr Miriam Stoppard keeps us straight in our house!

[weebump]

Are you sure it's 6 MONTHS, and not WEEKS?

[weebump]

sorry, meant 8 months...

[winnybella]

Yes, it says no milk under a year...
Those books are parents' bible in US.
I guess in food it's fine and they tell you no milk just in case you're really thick and start giving them bottles of it.

[theyoungvisiter]

I had what to expect when you're expecting and hated it. I thought it was full of really dodgy advice actually, and was poorly Europeanised from the American anyway.

[Pingpong]

From what I can gather they do a lot of stuff differently in the US compared to the UK particularly with regard to weaning.

[theyoungvisiter]

their whole weaning section is ridiculous - iirc it told you to check the introduction of new foods with your child's paediatrician beforehand.

I can just see my GP's face if I rang him up and told him I was planning on giving little Johnny eggs today, and was that quite alright, and would he please be on standby?

I think they didn't have the first clue about the NHS to be honest

The UK edition I had also told you to buy as much of your pregnancy medication as possible over the counter to save on prescription charges. It evidently completely slipped their attention that in the UK pregnant women don't pay for prescriptions.

[Pingpong]

do they not wean babies on applesauce in the US ? makes me think of roast pork dinners. I'd rather give DD the veg and a wee bit of pork and not bother with applesauce at all but we did BLW.
You say you are in France winnibella are you British or American? [just before I really put my foot in it!]

[winnybella]

No problem Smac I'm actually Polish but have lived in NY for long time and moved to Paris six years ago.
I agree they are being way overcautious with weaning, DD's BLW and eats everything.
Guess I came across as totally paranoid, but was trying to find some info on cow's milk in food on the internet in French and there's nothing.
Will call doctor tomorrow and will post here so come back if you want to know what the French have to say about it...

[weebump]

I'm pretty sure it's not recommended as a main drink before 1 year as it doesn't have all the nutrients, but I never heard about not putting it in cereal because it causes damage...

[tiktok]

Intestinal bleeding???

What planet are they on?

How ridiculous.

Ordinary cows milk is fine mixed with other foods from 6 mths, and even on its own it's fine...just not as a 'main drink' because the iron in it is relatively low and if a baby had lots of it and was not yet having solids, this would not be great, nutritionally-speaking. It's not actually harmful in itself.

In the UK guidance is that it's fine as a main drink at 12 mths, which is the notional age it's thought most babies are having a range of other foods.

In some cases, babies on cows milk alone or with very little else at say 18 mths or 2 yrs, which does very occasionally happen may be anaemic.

[Seona1973]

If you google it there is a lot of info about intestinal bleeding due to cows milk e.g. I found this:

Cow's milk is inappropriate for babies, and the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that cow's milk not be used as a replacement for breast milk or formula for the first year of life. Infants fed whole cow's milk have low intakes of iron, linoleic acid and vitamin E and excessive intakes of sodium, potassium and protein. The protein molecule in cow's milk is large and can permeate the intestine of the infant undigested, causing intestinal bleeding. This intestinal bleeding may not be visible to the naked eye but would be detected on exam. This intestinal bleeding contributes to the poor iron status of the infant. The protein level in cow's milk is too high, causing stress on the kidneys as they try to dilute the nitrogenous waste products from the protein. This can lead to dehydration as the baby's body draws on water stores.

Although cow's milk protein is used in infant formula, it has been modified to make it more digestible. The amount of protein used is in smaller concentrations than in cow's milk, and more closely matches the level in breast milk.

Read more: parenting.ivillage.com/baby/bnutrition/0,,3wf6,00.html#ixzz0SxJOjBRp

[tiktok]

Seona, I know. But that info is for infants and for infants fed solely on ordinary cows milk. No one suggests babies under 6 mths should have ordinary cows milk under any circumstances.

Intestinal bleeding is not a risk for babies over six mths having cows milk not as a main drink.

[winnybella]

Thank you seona and tiktok.
I think it make sense that if you're feeding your baby cow's milk day and night, it could do some harm, but if it's just a bit on cereal etc, it's fine.
Anyway, I said on Friday I will call dd's doctor next day forgetting it was Saturday,so will call tomorrow and will post here her response if anyone is interested.

[Pinkmarshmallow]

Looking forward to hearing doctor's response, am interested in this also at the moment, DD 7 months.

[Seona1973]

I used full fat cows milk in cereal, in other foods, etc from 6 months as it was easier than faffing about making up formula.

The food standards agency for the UK says this:

When your baby is six months old, you can start using full-fat milks in foods you cook for him or her, and give your baby full-fat milk products, such as yoghurt or fromage frais, unless you have been advised otherwise by your health visitor or GP

Babycentre says this:

The Department of Health recommends that you should not give your baby cow's milk or dairy products until your baby is six months old. From the age of six months, you can use small amounts of full-fat cow's milk in cooking, for example in cheese sauces or custards. Avoid giving cow's milk as a drink until your baby is a year old, because it is too low in iron and other nutrients

[winnybella]

Sooo.....I called dd's doctor today and, surprise, surprise, she doesn't think it's good idea to give 8 mo baby cow's milk even on cereal, in small quantites, as it doesn't have all the vitamins, iron etc. She recommended lait de 2eme age or lait de croissance, which are, respectively, formula for 6mo+ and vitamin-fortified milk for older babies.
She said it's fine to use it in cooking, for cakes, purees etc.
I guess what she meant was that breakfast is one of the main meals and so giving cow's milk wastes an opportunity for baby to have the vitamins and iron that she needs, whereas with, say, dinner of puree etc she is already having plenty of vitamins from other stuff.
Seems weird, DD eats her baby cereal( which
is fortified) in a plate with not much milk at all-so I don't see what's the problem really either way.
I forgot to mention the intestine problem, but she didn't say anything and since it's fine in cooking, then I guess that's fine.
I guess she is just voicing the official position on cow's milk, so no chance for her to see any other way on the issue.
Hmmmm....still confused, then.

[Pinkmarshmallow]

hmmmm

[MrsBadger]

rofl

Doc is barking. Follow-on milk and 'fortified toddler milk' are advertsising cons.
So long as dd is bf she shouldn;t be short of anything and will be fine .

[winnybella]

Ah, but see MrsBadger, when I told the doctor that DD is still bf lots, she said that at that age breastmilk doesn't have all the necessary vitamins and iron(even though I know she's very supportive of bf).
Another dilemma I have is the breakfast cereal-the fortified ones have got tons of sugar etc added and the organic one(just oatmeal) has just vit.BB added, so what about iron? Is there iron present naturally?
Oh,God,one wonders how our generation ever managed it to adulhood, I don't think our parents fussed as much as we do.