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Am truely utterly confused and a bit worried!!!! V.Long.

(26 Posts)
njmomof1 Mon 24-Aug-09 21:21:11

Have DS 6mths old and at 14wks was drinking 13floz of formula each feed and that was the hungry baby. HV told me to continue with formula only as DS was gaining weight really consistently and it was suiting him.

MY THOUGHT "Fine except your not the one sterilising twice the number of bottles and paying for twice as much milk!!!!"

Started off with Baby Rice at about 15wks not to feed just to introduce and he gradually took the rice on and worked his milk intake down himself. HV went berserk, reduced me to tears and made me feel like I was generally a crap mom and would end up inducing all sorts of problems (allergies etc).

Mom consolled me and I slowly introduced new flavours (only at breakfast to start with) and until about 3wks ago that was fine. He started wanting more milk at lunchtimes again so I started with purees at lunch. Within about a week DS was eating 3times a day, with 2 naps (M and A) and was back to sleeping through from 8.30 to 7.30am.

My problem with this is that he seems to be a bit too relaxed/lazy/lazy/lazy (get my drift???) He won't hold his beaker for his juice and although he will hold a spoon during mealtimes he refuses to hold a carrot stick or anything like that....

Am I missing something ladies because other babies are doing a lot more for themselves at mealtime, and I'm not worried about the LO but if i'm not doing something that would help.....

blush?

Killamarsh Mon 24-Aug-09 22:18:02

Hiya, Dont worry ........... my little one was the same, she starting picking up food and squashing it up in her hands about 7 month, I started weaning about 4 months. At about 9 month she starting eating finger food (hard stuff like toash she could not squish). As for the HV!!.......... I am gob smacked, remember they preech by the book. Do what you think you need too for your baby. DD is now 11 months, sticking her fingers in her dinner, and just starting to take interest in the spoon.

njmomof1 Tue 25-Aug-09 08:46:24

Thanx killamarsh. wasn't sure i was gonna get a reply with how long my post was!! grin

As for the HV I was pretty gobsmacked too...although she does resemble a great likeness to Mrs Trunchbull!!!! ha ha ha ha

Should I be feeding him and offering finger food on the tray as well????

ShowOfHands Tue 25-Aug-09 08:50:43

I think I'd get on very well indeed with your HV. Her execution may have been harsh (I wasn't there so can't say) but she was utterly right.

njmomof1 Tue 25-Aug-09 09:35:14

ShowofHands - I appreciate everyone has different opinions and I could have understood her reaction had I been giving him a piece of buttered bread to suck on every bleedin half hour but it was Baby Rice and to say the least I wasn't feeding him a bloody bowl full but a couple of teaspoons worth....which btw I mixed using either b/milk or his own formula!!!!

So tell me precisely where your overbearing remarks actually answer my question of my sons behaviour and what I can do to further encourage BLW???? Oh that's right you judged without enquiry and yes you probably would get on with the HV you seem to be of the same making.

ZippysMum Tue 25-Aug-09 10:20:12

nj, you came on asking for advice and opinions on your son's feeding behaviour. If you really want advice then it's only polite to 'listen' to it all, even if you don't agree with it.

Show of hands was pointing out that she agreed with the HV (as I do too) your son's 'lazy' behaviour is because he is not ready for weaning yet! The reason your health visitor told you that early weaning has been shown to cause health problems such as allergies is that a number of very large scientific studies have shown that this is the case. She is giving you the best advice for your son's health - you may have been cross and upset that the advice didn't agree with what you have done, but that doesn't make it any less valid.

Milk has more calories that purees - that's why he wanted more milk - he is probably hungry. Babies' guts are not designed to deal with much in the way of purees and solid foods before 5-6 months, that's why the guidelines recommend 6 months for weaning. Some babies won't show interest in solids till after that.

There's lots of good information about weaning, including information about the signs that a baby is ready - which include grabbing food, interest in solid foods etc. - some of the signs your OP says your baby isn't yet displaying. here (you have to scroll down a bit)

Hope that helps.

njmomof1 Tue 25-Aug-09 11:05:17

zippysmum please read your reply and then re-read show of hands'. I'm sure you can see the difference, considering the complete omission of advice in the latter.

I know all about the research that has been done and have taken the time to study some of the research myself so I was aware of the risks but when your DS is not being satisfied what do you do? My HV reduced me to tears because she did not give advice and if I recall correctly her words were "and I suppose your going to come crying to me when he has an allergic reaction? don't it's your own fault"....not particularly helpful or full of any advice, hence my reaction to show of hands. No advice just judgement...I'm all ears for any real advice honestly.

ZippysMum Tue 25-Aug-09 11:15:44

Hi again nj - yes it does sound like your HV could have handled it better hmm

There are a couple of threads running on BLW at the moment - don't know whether you've come across them.
one here

And this one.

They are both quite recent so maybe some of the mums giving advice on there will be able to help you (I haven't done BLW, so can't help much - just spending way too much time on MN because I am on bedrest waiting for twins!).

Hope your little one gets the hang of it soon!

ShowOfHands Tue 25-Aug-09 11:15:47

I am afraid that should you post on MN you will invite opinions. There are very, very good reasons why the guidelines suggest that babies be introduced to their first solids around the 26 weeks mark and even stronger evidential reasons for no solids being introduced before 17 weeks unless in the case of medical advice. You chose your mother's advice over that of a health care professional who has based her advice on research and guidelines that have your baby's health and development in mind.

Your reasons for doing so have nothing to do with nutrition, you said you just wanted to introduce it. Your hv offered you advice tailored to your situation and your thought was that you did not want to spend the time or money on what was best for your child's health but do want to spend money and time on baby rice well before the recommended age thereby compromising your child's health. You have your reasons obviously. I believe them to be upsetting and ridiculous.

You berate me for not offering advice on BLW. Well you aren't doing BLW, you've offered purees and baby rice well before the recommended time and persisted with it although your child still isn't showing the true signs of readiness for solids. And no waking up more is not a sign of a need for solids. Ability to sit up unaided, loss of tongue thrust reflex and ability to pick up food with a pincer grasp, put it in their own mouths, chew and swallow are the true signs.

Your child is not ready. And you choose to call your baby lazy when he is just simply not at that stage yet. You are placing adult concepts onto a small child.

You want advice on BLW. You allow your child to pick up food and feed themselves when they are developmentally ready. Their 'refusal' is a clear sign that they are not ready and are happy with milk for the time being.

And comparing your child to others of the same age? Madness and unhappiness that way lies.

ShowOfHands Tue 25-Aug-09 11:20:23

I acknowledged the execution was harsh. If your hv truly spoke to you like that then she was very wrong indeed but what I said was I believed she was right in her advice. I said nothing about the manner of deliverance. She did give you advice and I quote:

"HV told me to continue with formula only as DS was gaining weight really consistently and it was suiting him."

I didn't offer you any further advice at first as you clearly don't want advice that is based on current guidelines and research, you want to be consoled that you are doing the right thing. I don't believe you are but it is your choice.

See my previous comment for how BLW should be done if that's what you want.

ruddynorah Tue 25-Aug-09 11:28:50

you don't really encourage blw as such. the whole point is that it's baby led. but you've bypassed that already by spooning baby rice in.

all you do is put the food in front of him, normally while you're also eating, and let him pick it up if he wants it. that's really it. but you'll probably find it slow and wasteful though as you seem to want to have rather more control.

ruddynorah Tue 25-Aug-09 11:29:31

oh, and you don't need to sterilise bottles. just dishwash them.

njmomof1 Tue 25-Aug-09 11:45:36

"^I am afraid that should you post on MN you will invite opinions. There are very, very good reasons why the guidelines suggest that babies be introduced to their first solids around the 26 weeks mark and even stronger evidential reasons for no solids being introduced before 17 weeks unless in the case of medical advice. You chose your mother's advice over that of a health care professional^"

Nowhere did I say I took my mothers advice, just that she had to console me afterwards.

And my HV's enquiry into my son's progress stops at whether he's putting on weight. There are no further questions, and I have asked about what types of weaning before I tried the Baby Rice and she gave no help at all...if you think I'm wrong fine, but I've got no help or advice from her in 6mths and the only other reference I have is supermarket shelves or my mother. So when I come onto a site like this to try and find other ways of doing things so that I'm being led by my baby rather than the other way around and then get the response you gave what the hell else do you expect???

ruddynorah I don't own a dishwasher, my kitchen would even fit a double mattress in. I get that BLW is exactly what it's name says it is but HOW???

ruddynorah Tue 25-Aug-09 11:51:26

ok no dishwasher. you just need to wash the bottles in very hot soapy water and leave them to air dry. there are threads about not sterilising bottles. will save you a lot of time.

i have said the 'how'. you put the food in front of them and let them have it. it's baby led because they tell you they're ready for food by being able to pick it up, chew it, and swallow it. so you don't actually do anything other than pass food over. of course this can take a while, so you keep giving them milk to feed their hunger. then as they get more skilled at eating they demand less milk. again, you don't really do anything about that. you don't drop milk feeds or whatever. you just provide milk, provide food, and are led by them.

all this might seem a bit simplistic but it is what it is.

does that help?

njmomof1 Tue 25-Aug-09 11:56:57

Yes thank you. I'm going to check out the other threads to find out the 'whats' now. And the threads about not sterilising (was a bit stringent about it when i first used them but now he's older..)

Thanks again.

ShowOfHands Tue 25-Aug-09 12:02:02

ruddynorah and I have already said HOW but since you ask again I will copy and paste what I wrote before:

"You berate me for not offering advice on BLW. Well you aren't doing BLW, you've offered purees and baby rice well before the recommended time and persisted with it although your child still isn't showing the true signs of readiness for solids. And no waking up more is not a sign of a need for solids. Ability to sit up unaided, loss of tongue thrust reflex and ability to pick up food with a pincer grasp, put it in their own mouths, chew and swallow are the true signs.

You want advice on BLW? You allow your child to pick up food and feed themselves when they are developmentally ready. Their 'refusal' is a clear sign that they are not ready and are happy with milk for the time being."

It really is that simple.

You say you have had no help whatsoever and no advice apart from supermarket shelves or your mother but you also say that you read all of the research and are familiar with it. Well, which is it? You read the advice or you didn't?

And you say the hv gave you no advice about types of weaning when you asked about weaning a 15 week old and instead told you to carry on with milk for now. Well, bravo and hurrah, a HV who actually know what's best for a baby. Had she been telling you to wean a 15 week old she'd be lambasted on here for offering poor and dangerous advice.

You can ask for advice but don't complain when you don't like it.

And no you don't need to sterilise, just wash in hot soapy water.

IsItMeOr Tue 25-Aug-09 12:02:03

nj - there's a good book on baby-led weaning by Gill Rapley that you can buy cheaply from Amazon. Be warned though, given where you're starting from, the philosophy underpinning it might not suit you.

The HV sounds to have been very tactless, and I'm glad she isn't mine. The basic problem she will have had though, is that given the evidence that you shouldn't wean before 17 weeks, she couldn't actually give you any advice on how to wean before 17 weeks other than "Don't". Sounds like she didn't convey that at all effectively!

ruddynorah Tue 25-Aug-09 12:03:48

the 'whats'?? do you mean which foods? cos that's really anything. maybe start with thinking of the foods you currently puree, so just don't puree them. yes that means a peach, and yes that means spag bol.

you should avoid processed foods or adding salt to any cooking. but no need to stress about it as he won't eat much at first anyway.

say you have toast for breakfast, you give him some too. then you have omlette for lunch, he has some too. then maybe pasta for tea, yes he has some.

this all means not getting cross or frustrated if he throws food on the floor or if all he does is squash it or lick it. it also means you give him as much milk as he wants.

ShowOfHands Tue 25-Aug-09 12:09:06

Can I apologise if you feel got at by my posts? That's not my intention. I merely strongly disagree with your weaning decisions.

I wouldn't want to make any mother feel unnecessarily criticised.

No health care professional should approach you in the way you describe and her attitude, though not her advice, is utterly crap.

The best advice I can give you about BLW is to try and relax. It's a real pleasure to see your child feeding themselves and enjoying it.

IsItMeOr Tue 25-Aug-09 12:09:23

Forgot to say, the Gill Rapley book does include something about trying to introduce BLW after you have started on purees. Maybe you could get it through the library.

Also forget to say try not to compare your little one with your friends' babies - they're all different and get there in their own time.

Sorry if you feel you're getting a bit of a bashing - MNers will be concerned that other people might be tempted to go down the route you did without understanding the full implications, as anybody can read these threads.

TheProvincialLady Tue 25-Aug-09 12:12:41

Your son is not being lazy, really he is not. He is being 6 months old. Weaning is a gradual process and does not necessarily keep 'improving' all the time at a steady pace. Also, every child is different and a child who shows more enthusiasm for weaning will naturally help themself more than one who is not ready/not keen.

If I were you I would back off completely and just have the finger foods etc there for him to try if he likes with no pressure, and if you want to continue with the purees then make sure he is showing strong signs of wanting it. Otherwise you are in danger of turning a temporary lack of interest or unreadiness into a battle of wills and that will do neither of you any good.

njmomof1 Tue 25-Aug-09 12:16:12

Thanks ruddynorah. It sounds like life is going to get a lot easier in my house... I always steam my veg and I don't cook using salt at all really so cutting it out until I've seperated DS' won't matter too much.

I can get give mom the processor back!!!! WOHOOO.

Not fussed about the floor either, got laminate and I mop everynight cause I've got a dog too. But i might buy a plastic floor mat for the spag bol nights!!

njmomof1 Tue 25-Aug-09 12:23:18

IsItMeOr - Thanks, gonna try and get it to read. Totally understand about others reading it and trying. I tried to put as much detail in as poss but my original post was SOOOOOOOO long already.

TheProvincialLady - He does get genuinely excited when he sees his food, full of little screams and lots of smiles...throws a little squeal if you're not quick enough too...but he just doesn't show an interest in doing it himself and I suppose that's what I was trying to get at.

IsItMeOr Tue 25-Aug-09 12:30:06

We're going to be starting to offer our DS solids in a week or so, so I'm really hoping he will be making those excited noises!

Sounds like you are ahead of the curve (well me anyway!) in terms of your diet for adapting to BLW. DH was a bit taken aback when I said that we might have to modify our diet a bit (let's just say DS didn't sleep too well for a while, and we leaned on the ready meals quite hard).

njmomof1 Tue 25-Aug-09 13:08:03

TBH If someone looked at my big sisters diet and mine they would say that we were fed on completely different diets but mom never used processed stuff really and sweets were something we never had, we were given fruit instead. But BigSis loves nothing more than getting turkey drummers out the freezer whereas I just don't really like them, but i'll make my own??? Quite strange...but, I do have my Friday night off rule...where either DP cooks or we order in.

DS loves loves loves Cauliflower and Brocolli Cheese which is quite odd cause i had massive cravings for it when I was pregnant with him and thinking about it that's happened a lot and he doesn't really like sweet root veg either, tried him with Sw.Pots, Carrots and Sweed yesterday and he wasn't his usual ear-piercing self. But he does like Fish Pie. And I'm now really aware that all the food he likes is gonna be really messy!!!! ha ha ha

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