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Weaning guidelines seem conflicting !

(82 Posts)
AlphaAndEcho Tue 26-Feb-13 16:44:18

Ds is 4mo and lately his first stage formula is not satisfying him . I've read the weaning guidelines say that the hungry baby / second stage formulas are not recommended . Weaning before 6mo is not recommended . I dont know what else to do . He is taking about 800mls a day and any more than that he just brings it back up it's obviously too much milk for his stomach to take , but he's still hungry .

Any advice appreciated Tia

nickelbabe Wed 27-Feb-13 22:21:11

next time just tell it in floz - I haven't got a clue about ml.

MamaSteph Thu 28-Feb-13 07:59:09

I fully understand that the types or amounts of food you might give your baby at this age isnt substancial enough to 'fill' them or replace milk but for me, its about introducing your baby to new tastes, textures etc. Leaving it until 6 months then suddenly being able to feed them meals that people have suggested above I would have thought is more damaging for a babies body. If you start earlier (if baba is ready) by the time they are 6 months, they can be used to various fruits, vegetables etc. then at 6 months you can start with a little protien. Thus ensuring their iron intake is not depleting at the apparent 6 months.
In regards to a sleep regression, not all babies do this either.
My baba is 4 motnhs old, she takes 4 bottles a day at 6 floz each time. She also cant fit anymore milk in her belly but i get the impression shes after something else as well. If i did her 5 bottles less spaced out it doesnt make a difference. She drinks less at each bottle, equalling to the same throughout the day.

You do what feels right for you and your baby. If it isnt working then baba will show u. He will spit food out showing you his tongue reflex isnt ready. If he becomes gassy and uncomfy then his tummy isnt ready. Try small amounts and see what happens.

Ive been feeling guilty about the thought of weaning because of the guidlines, well now im sick of it. Each child is an individual. Good luck. Your his Mama, you know whats best x

MamaSteph Thu 28-Feb-13 08:29:52

After reading all the posts AlphaandEcho thought i should add this. My baby has exactly the same feeding pattern. 8am, 12pm, 4pm, 8pm. And sleeps 12 hours or so at night. How can that be wrong. I also couldnt dream feed my baby and used to try at 11pm or midnight. She would take maybe an 1 ounce. not worth it. Maybe try the 3 hour thing and see what happens but if ur baba is anything like mine, he wont like the change to his routine. He might just be craving something a little extra. Maybe try the hungrier milk every 4 hours still. See what happenes and then if not every 3 hours. I couldnt even do that as my baby has prescribed milk so only have the one kind of milk. I dont think you need to change HV, I just think you should do what u feel is best. Gut instinct all the way. Sorry for double reply I just wanted to add this.

Good luck Chuck x

stargirl1701 Thu 28-Feb-13 09:09:03

Steph. The baby is on formula. Formula is fortified. It is bf babies that need additional minerals at 6 months.

tiktok Thu 28-Feb-13 09:15:02

Formula has added vitamin d - I think that's what you meant, stargirl? Guidance is that bf babies are given vit d drops, whatever their solid intake, from 6 mths, mainly to reduce the impact of our modern indoor lifestyles with their lack of outdoor exposure. Breastmilk evolved over 1000s of generations which lived outside more....even in colder climates.

All babies - bf and ff - start to need iron from about 6 mths, without there being any urgency about it, though. In the UK, most infant formula is not iron-fortified.

AlphaAndEcho Thu 28-Feb-13 10:21:05

Oh Why I decided to write in mls I will never know !! I started off doing it in mls then the more he was taking it was easier to do it in oz !! grin

Anyway thanks for all the advice everyone . I'm glad now I know he's getting enough milk but still not sure about what to do regarding hunger i still think he's not properly satisfied with the milk but I'll leave it another few weeks and see how he is .

ilovepowerhoop Thu 28-Feb-13 12:52:05

there is no harm in trying hungry milk - I switched to it around 14 weeks with ds and although he didnt take any less or go longer between feeds he was more settled in between the feeds. It is more casein based which is harder to digest and can make them feel more satisfied for longer. If it doesnt help you can always switch back./

nickelbabe Thu 28-Feb-13 14:09:19

MamaSteph - the baby is having exactly what he needs at this stage.
If it' the same as yours, then it's fine.

It is not the amount or type of food that is causing the crying it is something else.
probably a developmental growth spurt.

MamaSteph Thu 28-Feb-13 14:56:55

Nickelbabe how can u say he's getting enough at this stage. Are u telepathic. You don't know this baby, he hasn't told you he's getting enough. So my opinion isn't any less valid than yours. Many peadtritions still recommend weaning from 17 weeks so if your going off medical Info there is conflicting advice from one health person to another!
I am offering my opinion to this lady, that is all.
And babies either FF or BF still start to become iron deficient at 6 months as their bodies are growing, developing more and requiring more vitamins and minerals. If you had already started to wean your baby at say 5 months then at 6 months, iron rich foods such as meat can be introduced. But starting weaning a baby at 6 months on fruit, veg etc and prolonging giving them meat is going to delay their iron intake further.

nickelbabe Thu 28-Feb-13 15:57:57

i know what the OP has told us and I know whatt he guidelines are.

He is rejecting some of the milk because he's had enough.

Please don't advise the OP to start weaning when it's against guidelines.
We're here to reassure her, not to encourage her to do something else than advised.

Yes, iron is less after 6 months, but it's not necessary to introduce other food yet.
the baby will not become iron-deficient at 6 months. It doesn't work like that.
and a lot of veg contains iron.

nickelbabe Thu 28-Feb-13 15:59:18

those paediatricians are going against guidelines then - they're actually not supposed to do that (weaning before 6 months is only ever recommended if there are specific medical reasons for it, not because the baby is crying a bit)

MamaSteph Thu 28-Feb-13 16:20:32

I'm not advising to wean yet, if you read my posts I have advised about trying a feed every 3 hours and then maybe the hungrier milk. But I have said for her to go with her instincts.
I cannot speak for AlphaAndEchco but I can't say you have all reassured her. At the milk questions, people specifically said how her DS wasn't getting enough milk throughout the day and probably worrierd her. Granted she realised she made a mistake and baba was drinking more but some people haven't advised but criticised.
Everything is probably and maybes. Your baby may just be teething, or may be bored. They are probably having a sleep regression or probably having a growth spurt. Life is all about ifs, buts maybes. Each baby is an individual and her baba might need food and that bit of baby rice for example, inbetween bottles might give him what he's looking for. Again in my sentence, might be!

forevergreek Thu 28-Feb-13 16:27:49

I would decrease the amount in each bottle and feed every 3 hrs instead

(as a maternity nanny)- I have never made a bottle with more than 8oz in my career. So seems lots to me! The ready made cartons are 200ml so thats usually the max at a time for any age

I would do 6/7oz every 3 hrs. It will allow him to keep more in as he won't be throwing it back up, and won't be so hungry at the beginning of a feed so less likely to speed drink. So 8am, 11, 2, 5, 8pm . If 7oz that's 35oz a day, and he is currently on 36oz. So roughly the same but more spread out.

MajaBiene Thu 28-Feb-13 17:03:41

To be honest though, hungry babies do not sleep 12 hours a night. If a baby isn't getting enough milk in the day the first thing they do is wake more often at night!

AlphaAndEcho Thu 28-Feb-13 17:44:09

As I have said I really can't get him to go any closer together . He obviously isn't starving or he would be screaming the house down ! grin

I just feel when he is having his bottles he's looking for something more . It's a lot of liquid to be sloshing about in his belly I feel he needs something thicker .

I don't know whether to try hungry baby milk and see how he is on it . But I've heard that hungry baby milk is actually really a repackaging of follow on milk .

And to pp who mentioned ready made , the ready made sma comes in 250ml and 1l bottles .

MajaBiene Thu 28-Feb-13 18:03:21

Hungry baby is just an older formulation of first milk that has a different protein in it which is harder to digest, so it sits in the baby's stomach longer.

Have you tried offering smaller bottles, or will is it just that he won't take another bottle 3 hours after a 9oz bottle? What would happen if you just gave him 6oz at 8am?

AlphaAndEcho Thu 28-Feb-13 18:51:55

He still wouldn't take the bottle any earlier that's why u had to keep putting his oz up because he kept going longer without feeds .

ilovepowerhoop Thu 28-Feb-13 18:57:42

hungry milk is mainly casein based whereas first milk is mainly whey based - the casein protein is harder to digest and 'may' make a baby feel fuller for longer. In the olden days all milks were probably like hungry baby milk until they refined the formulation more to try and make it more like breastmilk and ended up with both first milk and hungry milk. It is not going to hurt to try hungry milk and it may or may not make a difference. It is not a follow on milk as they are not recommended before 6 months.

ilovepowerhoop Thu 28-Feb-13 19:00:44

MajaBiene Thu 28-Feb-13 19:06:40

Hungry milk isn't going to make him take fewer oz though, which seems to be the problem - that 9oz bottles are too much volume. If he won't take smaller more frequent amounts then big bottles of hungry milk will just cause bigger gaps between bottles.

ilovepowerhoop Thu 28-Feb-13 19:13:38

ds never had bigger gaps on hungry milk - he took the same amount at the same intervals but was more settled in between. It would do no harm to try a different milk and they can always switch back if there is no difference.

forevergreek Thu 28-Feb-13 19:17:44

That's strange. The aptimal and all others Iv used are 200ml

Yes her won't take 9oz then 9oz 3 hrs later. But less more frequently he will.

ilovepowerhoop Thu 28-Feb-13 19:27:55

the new sma easy to feed bottles come in a 250ml size - they are phasing out the cartons that were 200ml

AlphaAndEcho Thu 28-Feb-13 19:58:12

No even if I only gave 6 or 7 oz bottles he would still go the same time between feeds . I promise I've tried that because I know 9oz in the one go is a lot for a baby but I had to increase the amount because he will only take 4 feeds in a day . He is in a great routine that he got into himself . But when I hear all the milk sloshing about in his tummy i want to give him something ticker . That would be like us drinking litre upon litre of water in one go !

JumpHerWho Thu 28-Feb-13 20:01:04

Note that if you're using powdered formula, adding 8 scoops to 8oz of water does give you about 9oz total of made up formula. My DS has been having this size since about four months with no probs - wouldn't finish every bottle but that's the size I'd make and sometimes he'd finish it, sometimes not, but it was quite clearly up to him how much he took iyswim, and he had 7 a day.

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