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2 do or not 2 do?

(43 Posts)
desprodad Sat 05-Jan-13 00:06:32

i have struggled with the decision to vaccinate or not for months/years. then when i have made up my mind to vaccinate, i read something and i'm back 2 square 1. my 3 yo girl has autistic traits and i'm worried about the single measles jab because i know i'm not giving her the mmr but i have spoken to a very well known vaccine doctor who has stated that there could be a small risk that it could make the traits worse. my wife believes she should have it done and doesn't c what i see. this has put a huge strain on our relationship, so much so that if we make another year together it would be a miracle. our girl tip-toes, lines things up, hates loud noises, repeats words said to her and punches herself when upset. she recently started nursery and caught a nasty bug and alas had to have antibiotics (1st time). after she completed the course she started to babble occasionally and not talk properly but after a month or so the babbling had stopped. so now i'm worried about any type of medical intervention. i'm aware of the government's stance on the mmr/autistic debate but i have researched autism extensively and quiet frankly not convinced on their part but more so on the views of the families that have been affected by vaccine damage. please help me!

ILikeOwls Sat 05-Jan-13 20:52:06

You'll find a lot of people here will tell you it is your 'duty' to vaccinate and whilst I'm sure they have their reasons you might not get the support and debate you are hoping for.

That said there are others who for various reasons have partially vaccinated or not vaccinated at all who will happily chat this thru with you!

My gut reaction would be don't do it. The damage the vaccine could cause is irreversible. I know measles carries risks, and serious ones at that but providing you and your partner are vigilant for symptoms and swift action, and you educate DD to be when she is old enough to understand you should catch it early enough if she is unlucky enough to get it.

There are various opinions on homeopathy but I believe there is homeopathic support available as protection against measles but that is for you to decide where you sit in that particular fence!

Your DD is the most precious thing in the world (at least I know my DS) is to me) and as her parent you are absolutely doing the right thing to question this rather than just going ahead.

The questions my DH and I ask ourselves are these: is the risk of the vaccine worth it (we have had a problem with one in particular), does the benefit outweigh the risk or does the risk cancel out any benefit. Once we have those simple answers we can weigh it up. We diarise a catch up regularly to review our feelings, the risk/benefit because even though we have paused a certain vac for now, we might not always feel the same way - dies that make sense?

I wish you all the best, there is nothing harder than having the health of your child in your hands and being stumped as to what to do for them for the best.

Sweetiesmum Sat 05-Jan-13 22:00:12

Understand your concern, I agree its it's best to weigh up the risks, especially with an autistic child who is often way more sensitive to tiny amounts of toxins than the average child.

If interested, we found websites such as helpful for improving our son's behaviours (he has mild Aspbergers) The website is for all parents who wish to minimise additives and nasty side-effects from common foods. It does touch on autism and avoiding additives from food which exacerbate autistic behaviours

Prior to vaccination day, why are all parents not given (in clear, readable print) the complete list of all the vaccination's ingredients (such as toxic preservatives formaldehyde, even previously mercury)?

With every surgical procedure/medical intervention we are educated of risks/benefits by medical professionals. Why is this not so with vaccination? Understand the push for 'public good' but this should not overide the right to be fully informed to weigh up risks/benefits.
Best wishes

sashh Sun 06-Jan-13 11:30:17

MMR does not cause Autism.

Your child already has autistic traits, if you believe she is autistic there is as much logic in thinking the vaccine will 'cure' her as there is to make it worse.

And, as far as I am aware, the single has never been linked by anyone to autism.

She has already had one nasty bug so why do you want to leave her vulnerable to many other nasty bugs.

Sweetiesmum Sun 06-Jan-13 12:10:00

With further research we shall know more about what triggers autism, but Drs actually do not know the cause, so the OP is understandably concerned regarding what exacerbates it. Anyone more up on the latest research who can comment please...

Willowisp Sun 06-Jan-13 12:18:26

Neither if my DD's have had the MMR. Dd1 had mumps a few years ago & was fine, she was more wiped out from a virus recently. Dd2 didn't get it.

Unfortunately my decision is based on a gut feeling, rather than scientific & every now & then I have the debate with myself.

I feel that keeping your child strong & healthy by eating nutritious food, getting fresh air & except use & (don't laugh) keeping warm, goes a long way to good health. So far the DC's have had excellent health.

If you're not happy with something, there is a reason, so trust yourself.

Tabitha8 Sun 06-Jan-13 15:58:13

I turned this around a little bit and looked at the risks of the various diseases rather than the risks of the vaccines.

Sweetiesmum makes a very good point. What information are parents given when their take their child for a vaccine?

desprodad Sun 06-Jan-13 22:55:10

thanks everyone. has any1 gone down the 'homeopathy' route instead of the vaccine route? i would love to hear about your experiences.

CatherinaJTV Sun 06-Jan-13 23:37:41

Homeopathy as an alternative to vaccination is utter hogwash - save your money.

LeBFG Mon 07-Jan-13 08:08:50

I think I can guess who the well-known doctor is and all I can say is, if OP has fairly represented what the GP has said (I find it hard to believe tbf), then the GP is acting completely irresponsibly. However, this pales into insignificance compared to ILikeOwls's post. shock shock.

To suggest that homeopathy could possibly be a realistic alternative to a vaccination is just utterly unbelievable.

To suggest simply that he should not vaccinate and cause (possibly) the end of OP's marriage is just shock. I have no words to describe this. Why doesn't she just say leave the bastard? A marriage split, a possibly autistic child to care for....all that really better than vaccinating?

ILikeOwls Mon 07-Jan-13 20:27:19

I didn't comment on the marriage at all.

CatherinaJTV Mon 07-Jan-13 20:34:50

However, you did mention homeopathy as an alternative to vaccination and that is dangerous nonsense.

balia Mon 07-Jan-13 20:41:11

Full lists of ingredients are available - I looked at LOADS when trying to find (more) acceptable vegetarian vacc's (long story). Mercury isn't listed because there isn't any in any UK childhood vacs.

Roseformeplease Mon 07-Jan-13 20:46:08

Please tell me you live a long way from Scotland and my children will not be compromised by your decision not to vaccinate? And homeopathy is total bollocks. Read Ben Goldacre if you want a basic understanding of why it is rubbish. The MMR Autism link was disproved years ago and your child is already showing traits. Better to vaccinate and concentrate your energy and research in finding ways of dealing with an autistic child and helping them to have a happy and fulfilled life.

ILikeOwls Mon 07-Jan-13 21:11:07

Catherine's - reread my post. I did not say homeopathy was an alternative to vaccination but that 'homeopathic support' is available. If OP has an interest in homeopathy he can look into it. Perhaps using it to minimize the impact of the vaccine as one option. Please don't be so quick to judge me or others until you have walked in our shoes.

If, as some believe, homeopathy is hogwash/placebo, where is the harm if used alongside conventional medicine. A little faith in the unexplained never goes amiss and when you reach the end of the road with conventional medicine (something I hope you never do) you will be surprised at where you find yourself looking for answers and solutions.

CatherinaJTV Mon 07-Jan-13 21:54:42

Homeopathic support for what? Measles encephalitis? Homeopathy is a placebo to calm mummy and daddy so that they don't freak out the child. You might as well pray or kill a cat on a cemetery at midnight (<- don't do that). Nothing is a substitute for the MMR.

Sweetiesmum Mon 07-Jan-13 22:55:46

Vaccines are not foolproof and they are changing constantly
The current lot of vaccines will also change
Yes, they ceased mercury as a preservative, and current vaccs will be reviewed also as they develop safer/more effective vaccine.

OK for each family to have some balanced weighing up of safety/effectiveness of current immunising (spelling??) schedule for their children.

We have vaccinated all but one child who has not had 4 y. o. vacc. Having a child with asp/autism can raise awareness of effects of addtitves/toxins worsening their behaviours. An additive free diet/no chemical cleaners/no perfumes worked wonders with improving my childs behaviours. Maybe tiny amounts of toxic preservtives have little impact on most kids, but maybe they do impact vulnerable kids?

Whatever the OP and his wife decide, I wish them health and happiness with their son. Hope can work things out happily for you both

LeBFG Tue 08-Jan-13 06:50:53

You should look at the advice you post a little more carefully ILikeOwls. OP's marraige is a littel shaky - there is great disagreement over whether or not to vaccinate...and you get your oar in suggesting basically not to vaccinate.

If, as some believe, homeopathy is hogwash/placebo, where is the harm if used alongside conventional medicine. None at all.....IF the conventional medicine is used. OP is deciding whether to vaccinate or not i.e. to use coventional medicine or not.

OP - wouldn't want to be in your situation. Hope it all works out well whatever decisions are made.

hmm hmm <gets off thread before really losing temper>

CatherinaJTV Tue 08-Jan-13 07:58:07

Sweetiesmum - measles vaccine comes pretty close to perfect and has not been changed in a very very long time. There was NEVER any thimerosal/mercury in the measles or MMR vaccines.

Sweetiesmum Tue 08-Jan-13 10:23:36

But tiny traces of other additives unfortunately may be in MMR/measles from what I've read
Double blind crossover placebo study with sufficient numbers of children has never been done for the MMR, as its very expensive, no-one seems to want to fork out the dough..
ILikeOwls is doing what the OP asked- stating views/opinions just like you.
I think she has been vilified for merely giving her opinion.
I can see how heated a marriage may get with this topic under fire on a daily basis!! Ultimately I'm sure OP's daughter has lovely parents who both care deeply and that is why both are trying so hard to ensure the best for their child. Would be great if they can put that loving protective energy into working out a compromise? Actually, Ilike owls suggested one- to vaccinate, then homeopathy for any reaction.. I dont know what the ideal answer is its a shame to break up when really both are fighting for the same thing, to protect their child.

TrazzleMISTLEtoes Tue 08-Jan-13 12:54:01

Is this really honestly worth breaking up your family over?

I appreciate that other people's children (and other people) are unlikely to mean anything to you - which I'm assuming because that's the standard response when herd immunity is brought up (ie. my child means everything to me and your child means nothing to me) - but I would say vaccinate. I clearly have a vested interest as I have an immuno-compromised child, but seriously there is NO LINK between these vaccinations and autism.

Tabitha8 Tue 08-Jan-13 14:01:38

If not vaccinating could break up the family, vaccinating might also break it up?

JoTheHot Tue 08-Jan-13 17:41:49

Double blind crossover placebo study with sufficient numbers of children has never been done for the MMR, as its very expensive, no-one seems to want to fork out the dough.

Such a study hasn't been done because it would be profoundly unethical to deliberately leave large numbers of children unprotected. This is especially true when the study would be largely pointless, as the link between vaccinations and asd has already been disproven beyond all reasonable doubt. It has nothing to do with money.

balia Tue 08-Jan-13 17:49:50

Tiny traces of what? I have the ingredients list, I can check for you. Or are you talking about the 'tiny traces' that don't show up on any accepted test? (I've read some real nonsense on the internet, apols if this isn't the thing you are referring to, sweetiesmum)

DorsetLass Tue 08-Jan-13 21:07:43

Those who have suffered measles etc and your children have been fine are lucky to put it mildly. Please read the full list of the consequences and side effects of measles, mumps, meningitis etc and decide if you are prepared to explain these to your children if they suffer them. I sadly have seen the devastation that these can cause to a childs life and family - permanant limb amputation from meningitits, sterility in boys following mumps, death from measles to name a few. The fact these are now rare is because the majority vaccinate, but infections rates are now rising as parents are becoming complacent and thinking the risks of vaccines is higher.

If you attend any vaccination clinic in a developing country (as I have) families will walk and que for days as they know full well the consequences of the diseases we are so so fortunate in this country to prevent. Please make an educated choice by all means, but that means balancing the very very real risks of contracting the diseases (with all that that could possibly entail) you are vaccinating against

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