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Time For A Wake Up Call

(15 Posts)
rosi7 Thu 28-Feb-13 00:00:39

CatherinaJTV Thu 28-Feb-13 02:00:44

really hmm

Forgetfulmog Thu 28-Feb-13 02:08:38

Great, thanks OP - yet something else for us parents to get worried about. Should we all return to a world pre vaccine then when such diseases as Smallpox were common?

rosi7 Thu 28-Feb-13 08:54:10

CatherinaJTV Thu 28-Feb-13 16:30:56

more links to anti-vaccine nonsense, maybe conceived at that plush anti-vaccine vaccine-safety conference in Jamaica that also saw Wakefield speak. That will certainly convince us grin

Tabitha8 Thu 28-Feb-13 18:41:40

Who are the "us", Catherina?

CatherinaJTV Thu 28-Feb-13 19:21:59

Forgetfulmog and me wink

bruffin Thu 28-Feb-13 20:23:35

For some reason i always confuse tabitha with rosi

OrchidFlakes Thu 28-Feb-13 22:04:14

I'm by no means wanting to start a ruckus but is anyone able to answer these q's (from one of thin links) ignoring the q referring to Wakefield (q3)as I'm well aware his 'research' was dismissed but some of the other q's are interesting but my own personal knowledge of this area is quite lacking and I know some of you are really clued up. Ignore q1 too as its broad and leading!

Please ignore the inflammatory language in the q's I copied and pasted and the tone is not a reflection in my own thoughts!

1. What are the serious negative health effects that these vaccines can generate? Are the risks worth the benefits?
2. Dr. Michel Odent has linked asthma to the whooping cough vaccine. Have you read his research? What do you think?
3. Professor Wakefield (UK) has linked autism and Chrones disease to the measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine. What do you think? What evidence do you have to back up your opinions?
4. Why is the same dose of vaccines given to a two month old as for a 5 year old?
5. Are you aware that Japan changed the start time for vaccinating from 3 months to two years and straight away their SIDS rate plummeted?
6. Do you believe in herd immunity? If so, how is it that 98% of U.S.A. children are vaccinated yet they still have outbreaks of these diseases?
7. Most diseases were already 90% gone before any vaccines were introduced. If this is so, how can vaccines be applauded for diseases ceasing, especially when there were no vaccines for some diseases like bubonic plague and scarlet fever?
8. How can the Tetanus vaccine induce immunity, when contracting the disease naturally does not give immunity?
9. If the so-called diphtheria vaccine, which is in fact a toxoid, works against the toxin produced by the bacteria, and not against the bacteria itself, then how did this “vaccine” help in the decline in diphtheria?

bruffin Thu 28-Feb-13 23:36:07

1.IOM Adverse Effects of Vaccines. Evidence and Causality Has answers about diptheria and tetanus as well.

3.I think you actually need to ask what evidence was there to back up Wakefields opinion. Nobody has been able to replicate his findings.

4Good information here on immune response in babies Basically because there is no difference to the reaction of a small baby to an older child. Its about the ability of the body to produce antibodies not the side affects of the vaccine. Even preterm babies are given their vaccines chronologially

No 5. Sids did not plummet in Japan. That was a myth spread by a woman called Vera Schreibner. There were still sids deaths but they could no longer be blamed on vaccines so were not reported in the vaccine reactions. Vera Schreibner concluded because there were no more sids reactions listed that sids no longer happened in Japan which was nonsense. Sids were temperal reactions not causal.

Tables from the Funayama, M., Tokudome, S., and Matsuo, Y., Autopsy Cases of Sudden Unexpected Infant Deaths Examined at the Tokyo Medical Examiner's Office, 1964-1993. American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology, 1996. 17(1): p. 32-37

1964-68 : 250 SUD cases, almost none were SIDS
1969-73 : 153 SUD cases, almost none were SIDS
1974-78 : 153 SUD cases, approx. 7 were SIDS *
1979-83: 104 SUD cases, approx. 25 were SIDS
1984-88: 118 SUD cases, approx. 65 were SIDS
1989-93: 144 SUD cases, approx. 90 were SIDS

* Pertussis immunization age was raised to two years in 1975

6. Measles outbreaks in the US are caused by importation. In 2011 there were 222 cases and in nearly every case could be linked directly to importation. A high percentage were in completely unvaccinated and the outbreaks were small with a median of 6 cases, so herd immunity was doing its job by limiting the outbreaks and stopping measles spreading.

Scarlet fever is still a common disease and in fact can still be quite serious (my bil had it and was ill for weeks) But thankfully antibiotics have reduced the serious complications of it. Think bubonic plague can also be cured by antibiotics but it is still around and it is still causing death.

9. Does it really matter how it works, it does work. DH aunty had diptheria as a child and was left with life long heart problems.

AnnieLobeseder Thu 28-Feb-13 23:47:09

OrchidFlakes "7. Most diseases were already 90% gone before any vaccines were introduced. If this is so, how can vaccines be applauded for diseases ceasing, especially when there were no vaccines for some diseases like bubonic plague and scarlet fever?"

Have you got any further details on this? I mean, there are thousands of diseases out there. Which were 90% gone anyway, and how was this measured?

The only diseases which are lauded as having eradicated with help from vaccination are ones which have in fact been eradicated with help from vaccination. No-one has ever claimed, as far as I know, that vaccines rid the world of plague or scarlet fever. As bruffin said, these diseases are still around.

Any scientist will tell you that vaccines are only a part of the solution for any disease. They are not a magic bullet on their own, they form part of an eradication program which includes prevention and quarantine to prevent spread.

Modern medicine has thankfully lessened the impact of most diseases which were once much more dangerous that they are today. Vaccination is a big part of that, but more efficacious treatments, more rapid diagnosis and better overall patient care also play a huge part.

bruffin Fri 01-Mar-13 00:04:13

Forgot to mention clean water and good sanitation do play a role in prevention of disease.

AnnieLobeseder Fri 01-Mar-13 00:36:31

^^ that too.

OrchidFlakes Fri 01-Mar-13 01:17:37

Thanks bruffin there're is so much info there! Such interesting reading too

Annie, I have no evidence at all! They aren't my questions but from one of the OP's links and I'd not seem such q's before and knew people like Bruffin and Catherina were seriously clued up on vaccines and interested in their knowledge in the subject. The views expressed in the q's aren't my own.

Tabitha8 Fri 01-Mar-13 16:11:08

Bruffin You confuse me with Rosi? Perhaps we either look alike or sound alike.....

Incidentally, I think it crucial to know how vaccines work.

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