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link between mmr and diabetes type 1

(21 Posts)
ariane5 Mon 07-Jan-13 21:33:40

Iam not looking to cause any arguments I would just like to know is there any link as my dd has been unwell since having her 1st mmr in february.

A week or so after the jab she got a slight temp and fine red rash over her forehead (so did ds who had jab same day)

2 weeks after jab she got tummy pains after getting them on and off for 3 weeks they have been daily and we have been to gp/hosp numerous times.she has had many infections since and last mon was diagnosed with diabetes.

I want to know why she has been so unwell since her mmr.of course it may just be coincidence but I need answers sad

CatherinaJTV Mon 07-Jan-13 22:04:45

Hugs Ariane5, what devastating news sad

Type 1 diabetes is on the rise amongst kids in the developed world, and we don't know why. Overall, there is little evidence that there would be a connection to any vaccine.

Now, mumps and rubella infection with wild type virus have been associated with an increased risk of developing type 1 diabetes, while studies looking at MMR have not found an association (apart from one, discredited study). Did your DD have pancreatitis after the MMR? That is the only way I could imagine a causal role for the MMR. This would be a very very rare event (I find two case reports since 1991 in older vaccinees in the literature). What has the GP said? More hugs, I am really sorry.

ariane5 Mon 07-Jan-13 22:20:00

I do not know if she had a pancreas problem after mmr all she kept getting was severe stomach pain.

We went to gp so much sometimes daily in the end they put it down to the fact I'd had ds2 and maybe she was jealous.I know my own child and she was in pain sad she also kept getting throat ear chest inf and more recently utis.

Maybe it is coincidence but after that jab she changed and was in pain

CatherinaJTV Tue 08-Jan-13 07:55:43

in the end they put it down to the fact I'd had ds2 and maybe she was jealous.


I will ask a friend whether there would be a way to determine whether it could have been the vaccine virus 10 months after the MMR.

ariane5 Tue 08-Jan-13 09:02:51

We were still so worried we scraped together money to be seen privately but it was a bit hit and miss as her symptoms were vague just tummy pains/frequent infections and as she has other health issues I don't think things were looked into but I know her and she did change and wasn't right.

Obviously I don't know for def and prob never will but I feel like I have to at least try and find out.she had had a hernia from the age of 1 but it had never bothered her before that and I don't think that's what was hurting the tummyache seemed to be right inside her not where the hernia was.
We paid for a full blood count and allergy tests too to rule it out.dd does have eds but although that can cause issues with constipation when the pains started she was not constipated at all.

I was wondering is there a test, could they take blood or a biopsy of pancreas and see if any vaccine viruses are in there? I just want to know why sad

BlissfullyIgnorant Tue 08-Jan-13 09:35:02

Sorry to hear your DC is so sick.

You said she'd been unwell since the jab two weeks previous, but had symptoms for 3 weeks. It is possible your DCs had picked up something a fortnight or even 3 weeks before the jabs and it was developing prior to symptoms becoming obvious. (It is worth remembering some diseases can incubate for up to 3 weeks)
A viral infection can last up to 12 weeks according to my GP/hospital docs and without extensive lab tests it's impossible to find out exactly what it is the patient has - for the majority of cases this isn't done unless there is a good reason, not only because of cost but because of the fact that often lab tests take longer to give results than the illness lasts in otherwise healthy people. (Background; one of my DCs has a life affecting illness and takes immunosuppressant drugs, hence the need to know this kind of stuff. I'm not a medic, just very experienced)

I wouldn't assume MMR has given your child diabetes. It's a sad fact that more and more kids are getting illnesses like this, and current thinking is that it's because of the modern lifestyle. A high flying rheumatologist gave us some details as to why many of the experts think this is; modern houses with double glazing, cleaning products, food production methods and the 20th century life have all conspired to give us a huge increase in allergies and other immune disorders and problems with bodily processes. We take the changes forward into the 21st century and instead of being ahead of the game, we are trying to keep up. It isn't anything that one individual parent/couple has done, it's us as a planet and that's that. Changing to an organic diet and using Ecover now won't necessarily help. You might have seen press reports last year about the lifestyle of grandmothers affecting their grandchildren because cell changes can happen in the ovaries of foetuses - all very complicated, but worth knowing.

As I said, I'm not a medic, but I would strongly advise learning as much as you can about the condition, do lots of reading and make contact with other parents in your situation. Find out if there's an organisation specifically for families living with childhood diabetes and go for meet-ups. We did it, assuming the other people there would be self-absorbed and wierdy, but they weren't - they were shit scared and pissed off with it all, just like us.

Good luck, I wish you well xx thanks

CatherinaJTV Tue 08-Jan-13 22:34:13

I really like Blissfullyignorant's post.

After some searching, there does not seem to be the technical possibility to find a virus months after a potential infection, but the blood values that were taken should have revealed a pancreatitis (if there ever was one). Is EDS Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome? There are a handful of case reports of that and chronic pancreatitis (although not diabetes). Not very helpful, probably. Hugs.

ariane5 Tue 08-Jan-13 22:42:26

Yes dd2 has ehlers danlos hypermobility type (so do my other dcs)

I suppose I just would like a reason.I've been going over everything even the anti sickness medication I took when I was pregnant and had HG wondering did that damage her in some way.

Lightcotton Wed 09-Jan-13 15:16:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ariane5 Wed 09-Jan-13 16:10:05

Would that be an immediate reaction though or could it have gradually damaged her pancreas and caused diabetes months later (dd had mmr end of feb and diagnosed with diabetes last week)?

Lightcotton Wed 09-Jan-13 16:20:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CatherinaJTV Wed 09-Jan-13 16:48:57

it is really important to know that "adverse events" in the package insert have not been proven to be caused by the vaccine. In a clinical trial anything that happens after vaccine administration is included in the package insert. Ariane5 - I understand that you want to know what caused your daughter's diabetes, but I would beware of jumping to conclusions here. There are a lot of parents who are beating themselves up forever over the thought that they caused their children's issues (by taking them for their jabs) where really there is no connection and all the energy could be applied to something more worthy and tears and heart ache spared.

I would ask the GP whether any blood values ever indicated an inflammation. You would see any "-itis" in the blood count. If not, then there was no pancreatitis and MMR and EDS are out the window as causative.

more hugs.

CatherinaJTV Wed 09-Jan-13 16:52:24

good reads

ariane5 Thu 10-Jan-13 15:27:09

Maybe I need to just accept things rather than looking for an answer.

I've read and re-read so much the last few days but even if it was mmr or a virus I don't think there's a way to find out.


sendy Tue 09-Apr-13 15:22:40

my little boy (2 months premature) now 18 months has not had MMR jab yet as he was unwell and advised to wait until he was a little stronger and older. Iam still unsure as to get the combined or single jabs. With this measels ep going round he needs to be vacinated now. Does anybody have any views? thanks

CatherinaJTV Tue 09-Apr-13 15:35:19

Sendy - are you in Wales or any other region with many measles cases at the moment?

sendy Tue 09-Apr-13 16:03:24

hi ya - no I live in South East England

CatherinaJTV Tue 09-Apr-13 16:10:49

maybe take the outbreaks as a reason to talk to your GP/Health visitor again? 18 months is a great age to the get the MMR.

sendy Tue 09-Apr-13 19:24:46

yes, he can fit me in tomorrow, thank goodness. has your child had MMR and if so did they have any sidde effects, did you give them calpol first

CatherinaJTV Tue 09-Apr-13 21:50:51

didn't give Calpol, both had MMR (twice), DD had no side effects whatsoever, DS, after his first MMR (at 17 months) got a slight rash in the nape of his neck, starting about a week after vaccination and lasting for about a week. Did not bother him. He also had slightly swollen glands on one side of his neck, but that didn't seem to hurt either (I was watching him like a hawk, can you tell ;) ). Good luck!

Tidypidy Wed 10-Apr-13 12:28:41

My son was diagnosed with type1 diabetes 7 months before he had mmr. Drs think diabetes may have been triggered by virus but we've found it's better to focus on his care now and for the future than trying to find a cause though this is hard to do. Since diagnosis he has had every vaccination offered including flu jab as the diabetes makes every illness potentially more serious. We all have flu jab in family too to try to reduce risk of infection for him. Have a look at the jdrf and diabetes uk websites. Both charities organise meet ups and can give advice and support should you need it. Our local paediatric diabetes team also offer counselling which you may find helps you to come to terms with everything. Best of luck.

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