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AIBU about vaccinations?

(48 Posts)
Wroughtiron Sat 15-Dec-12 09:55:26

If you were setting up a playgroup and had chosen to only vaccinate your child in the first year and nothing beyond that, do you think the other parents should be informed of your child's vaccination status?

saintlyjimjams Sat 15-Dec-12 21:30:39

But what are you trying to avoid? I mean polio isn't that likely vaccinated or not. Tetanus? No problem. And so on and so forth.

crashdoll Sat 15-Dec-12 21:30:59

saintly I understand that but it's another risk. If my child was severely immunocompromised, I'd want to know so I could ask their doctor and make my own decision. People with compromised immune system (mine is but not severely) make their own risk assessments every day. It's safer if they have all the facts. Why deny someone that?

Wroughtiron Sat 15-Dec-12 21:30:59

Anything that they could have been vaccinated against, and weren't!!! Take your pick!

saintlyjimjams Sat 15-Dec-12 21:33:22

But wroughtiron see my earlier point. Measles outbreaks do tend to centre around unvaccinated populations (although they also occur in vaccinated populations) but whooping cough and mumps not so much. Other factors seem to cause those outbreaks.

Wroughtiron Sat 15-Dec-12 21:36:35

There will always be those who don't serum convert, but that's not an argument to a) not vaccinate in the first place and b) keep quiet about it when exposing other children to the unvaccinated child.

And here's the full list of nasties which the uk schedule attempts to avoid:
The vaccination schedule covers the following diseases:

whooping cough (pertussis)
Hib: vaccination against the bacteria Haemophilus influenzae type B, which can cause meningitis, pneumonia, blood poisoning and infection of the epiglottis (back of the throat)
rubella (German measles)
meningitis C
pneumococcal: vaccination against the bacteria Streptococcus pneumoniae (known as pneumococcus), which can cause meningitis, pneumonia, severe ear infections (otitis media) and blood poisoning

saintlyjimjams Sat 15-Dec-12 21:36:43

TBH most of the kids we see regularly are unvaccinated, or at least half of the family is (younger siblings of disabled kids), or they're partially vaccinated, so I presume it's pretty similar elsewhere.

I do get annoyed with people who send vomiting kids back to school too early, or ill kids to school/playgroups.

OddBoots Sat 15-Dec-12 21:38:10

Why would a leader's child being unvaccinated be any more of a risk than any other unvaccinated child?

Wroughtiron Sat 15-Dec-12 21:39:59

I think with respect it's a mistake to assume that all areas have the same level of vaccinations. In my locality it's pretty rare to find an unvaccinated child and they are mainly (in my experience) the children of people recently moved to the area, who have missed the schedule or from overseas, or less so, the children of those who object to vaccines.

Wroughtiron Sat 15-Dec-12 21:41:08

Oddboots they wouldn't, obviously. But perhaps there's an implied duty of care.

saintlyjimjams Sat 15-Dec-12 21:43:25

Yes but wroughtiron which ones are you worried about? The current outbreak of whooping cough for example is not being driven by unvaccinated individuals. (Even the dept of health says this). So if I had a 4 week old and was worried about whooping cough I just wouldn't be going out much at all until they'd had their jabs. If I was worried about measles with a 4 week old I wouldn't be so fussed because I had measles so would expect a baby of mine to have pretty god passive immunity.

Mumps likewise - when the outbreak was occurring a few years ago you needed to keep away from teenagers and those in their early twenties.

Incidentally iirc a mumsnetter who can't vaccinate her child (doctor's advice) did have a child in the school with immune problems. She asked the consultant and he said it wasn't a concern and she wasn't increasing the risk to the child.

saintlyjimjams Sat 15-Dec-12 21:44:13

How do you know wroughtiron or do you check every person you meet?

Wroughtiron Sat 15-Dec-12 21:52:31

I don't think I'm in a position to pick and choose between each disease! My question originally was whether it should be disclosed that the leader of a group will be bringing an unvaccinated child with them. No more than that. And my point is that although vaccinations and disclosure of immune status isn't compulsory, there is a knock on effect to the wider community if people don't vaccinate and perhaps there's a duty of care implied, when an individual firms a group and then exposes that group to a non vaccinated child, which may pose some risk to the group itself or it's associations.

Wroughtiron Sat 15-Dec-12 21:56:20

FWIW I really don't think anyone's medical status is anyone else's business and whilst I don't support those who refuse vaccines, I do support their right to do it. But there are situations where that decision can impact markedly on the wider community and in those circumstances disclosure may be the way forward. (And anyway if the individual has the courage of their convictions then it's a non-issue.)

SolidGoldFrankensteinandmurgh Sat 15-Dec-12 21:58:51

Do you have a particular grudge against this group leader? There may be other regular attendees who are unvaccinated but have not disclosed it (as they are under no obligation to do so). Is the group leader a loopy hippy anti-vaccination PITA who never shuts up about it?

saintlyjimjams Sat 15-Dec-12 21:59:24

Oh well, no I don't. It's no different from school, where no-one knows who is vaccinated and who isn't.

If you have a reason to be concerned about your own immunity you have to assume anyone you meet is capable of spreading any disease really. And whilst no you can't pick and choose, different diseases have different methods to best avoid them/different risk groups so if you have a particular concern then you should know how that one spreads. If you were particularly concerned about measles then I could see the point of questioning people on their vaccination status, but not if you were worried about w/c.

Wroughtiron Sat 15-Dec-12 22:01:30

Solidgold no, not in the slightest.

saintlyjimjams Sat 15-Dec-12 22:12:59

Ok another example.

My friend gave her son the MMR. Decided she didn't want to give him the booster unless he really needed it so she had his immunity checked. Hadn't worked at all against measles. So she vaccinated him again, then had his immunity checked. Hadn't worked at all again, so she gave up, although presumably he'll get the MMR whenever his next booster is due (and who knows whether it will work this time). Should she disclose that her child is not immune from measles (and measles is particularly relevant is pockets of non-immunity do contribute quite strongly to measles outbreaks because of the way it spreads).

blackcurrants Sun 16-Dec-12 00:56:09

This is an interesting thread for me cos we're in the usa and DS (2) absolutely has to be date with all vaccines in order to stay enrolled in his daycare - its NJ state law. I am sure we mix with unvaccinated children at soft play and parks but I like knowing that the children he spends the majority of his time with are.vaccinated.

saintlyjimjams Sun 16-Dec-12 01:07:15

I know quite a few unvaccinated kids in schools in USA. (Varies from State to State but there are ways round it in most). I have to admit I was surprised though, that the vaccination rates here (without compulsory vaccinations) appeared (last time I looked) to be higher than the states. That did surprise me. I'd always assumed that the States would be higher.

blackcurrants Sun 16-Dec-12 01:44:10

The rules may very well be different for daycares (a privately run business) and public schools, I dont know.

There's plenty of anti-science woo here, sadly, a lot of it amongst educated people who should know better.

lljkk Sun 16-Dec-12 12:52:35

I got bumped off my university course in the USA for failing to provide evidence of measles jab. They are pretty pushy about it.

RebeccaTheHallsMumsnet (MNHQ) Sun 16-Dec-12 13:14:41

Hi all,

We've moved this to our vaccinations topic now.

ArthurPewty Fri 28-Dec-12 10:00:31

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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