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MMR and others for child with autism and sibling - can anyone point me to the information I need?

(28 Posts)
StarlightWonderStarlightBright Wed 29-Dec-10 11:55:07

Thank you.

DS (4) has had his baby jabs and has autism. I am confident that none of the jabs have caused his autism, but I am not confident that they are a good thing in a general sense for someone who has autism and the biological complications that sometimes go with it. I am being hounded for him to have his preschool booster.

Now DD is in perfect health in every way that I can see. She has had all her baby vacs (Although quite late) but not yet her MMR. I halted all vacs when I got ds' diagnosis.

Now ideally, I would like to start up the vacs programme with them both from where I have left off, but felt that to do so without being fully informed of the potential risks would be irresponsible and I would never forgive myself.

I'd like to point out that it isn't the MMR in particular that I am worried about, but vacs in general wrt to the specific needs and vulnerabilities of my children. i.e. one with severe autism, and the other at high risk.

Many TIA

TondelayoSchwarzkopf Wed 29-Dec-10 11:57:38

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StarlightWonderStarlightBright Wed 29-Dec-10 12:01:48

My GP says they should both have the vaccinations, but my GP quite frankly talks a load of shit about a lot of things.

If you read my OP you would see that I wasn't asking for chat information I was asking to be pointed to information.

Sorry to be snipy but you were being incredibly patronisingg and I don't know how long you have been on MN, but if you had been here a while you would realise that the information reference on this site is usually far advanced of anything I could get from my GP or 'support' organisations.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf Wed 29-Dec-10 12:06:48

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pagwatch Wed 29-Dec-10 12:11:52

Have a look on vaccinations and maybe go to the special needs section and post there.

Ds2 has autism which we believe was related to his jabs. With her gps approval dd has avoided all jabs(aged8 now) and has no asd/ gut or related issues.

There is no right answer. You just have to speak to as many people as possible and make the bat decision you can.

My instinctive feeling is that with no allergies, immunity issues, intolerances, gut problems or history of regression then an child/sib with asd is as safe being jabbed as n't population.

But ask in sn. There are more informed people of all views there

borderslass Wed 29-Dec-10 12:12:04

For years we blamed the MMR for DS's numerous problems but a year ago he had an OT assesment which came out with sensory processing disorder and all the symptons where there before any jabs.
Sorry if it's not what your looking for.

StarlightWonderStarlightBright Wed 29-Dec-10 12:18:43

No border that is helpful.

Thanks pag I have linked to this page from there. I have been tied up in other battles for my ds so haven't spent the time I ought to have researching this and want now to have a clear decision and rationale rather than just let my kids go unvaccinated by default iyswim.

Ideally, I would like to be able to go ahead and vaccinate them but I need to be certain of the potential risks first.

I don't 'think' my ds suffers from any gut problems and I haven't seen any regression, nor have I seen anything I would correlate to the first MMR. I just don't want to make the decision blindly.

I think Tond that the debates previously were about the Wakefield scenario, but I'm really not interested in that alone, more the general safety for those who have rare but specific conditions.

pagwatch Wed 29-Dec-10 12:41:20

Sorry starlight grin I didn't initially realise it was you!

It is a worry isn't it.

I know you are not entirely focussed on the mar but have yup thought of getting a titre test for ds. If he has adequate I munity from the first jab he would not necessarily need the booster.

Ds didn't have the booster for obvious reasons. Dd won't have the mmr but I will look at rubella when she is older and think she may well have has measles already so may not need that at all. I won't get mumps for her.

Dds school have no issues about her being unvaccinated and her aped and gp are happy too. I don't get chasers but I go in and talk to them every year to review. Have you thought about seeing halvorson...

StarlightWonderStarlightBright Wed 29-Dec-10 12:47:14

No pag I haven't thought much about anything really. It's only with the break of the Christmas period that I've had a break from the relentless battles about everything else long enough to get round to looking into it. I don't know anything at all about halvorson, - will look it/him? up thanks.

StarlightWonderStarlightBright Wed 29-Dec-10 12:47:38


ArthurPewty Wed 29-Dec-10 12:50:23

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ArthurPewty Wed 29-Dec-10 12:50:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pagwatch Wed 29-Dec-10 12:54:39

Dr Richard halvorsen. .. Does separate jabs and knows a lot about vaccination, wrote book about it the name of which escapes me ( I will find it).
he proposes an altered vaccination schedule for vulnerable children.

ArthurPewty Wed 29-Dec-10 13:00:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

silverfrog Wed 29-Dec-10 13:00:56

I would suggest Halvorsen's book as a starting point - informative read about the pros/cons of each vaccine in the current vaccine schedule.

he does do consults too - we keep meaning to book with him for dd2.

just for info: dd1 had all her baby jabs and then some (she was born abroad, jabbed according to their schedule, came back to uk when she was about 5 months old, and was given the whole uk schedule form the beginnnign as it was easier for the docs than working out which combos she needed to get up to speed with the uk schedule. if I had known then what I know now... but anyway, I did what I thought was best. suffice to say, the docs were talking a load of shit, and giving duplicates of some jabs, especially so close togehter is not a good idea)

anyway, dd1 then continued in the uk schedule, although had her mmr late, as she was slow developing by that point, and we wanted to know where we stood before giving her that one (she had it at around 20 months, iirc, so not particularly late)

dd2 has had none at all. and will not be having any for the forseeable.

I do not htink that the mmr caused dd1's autism - indeed, her first appt with a paed was already booked for just after she turned 20 months, so we had already noticed her developmental issues months before mmr. however, I do not think the mmr has helped her at all, and probably caused some of her gut issues (along with the cocktail she was given abroad, some of which we refused but they gave her anyway angry)

this one really is a case of read as mucha s you can, form either side of teh issue, and weigh up what you are being told. it comes down to how you evaluate the info you are given, I'm afraid

(didn't help my trust that the nurse refused to let me read the patient information leaflet on mmr before I signed the consent for dd1's mmr, as apparently it would make me question things hmm hmm. Honestly, I look back at how naive I was, and wonder why on earth I went ahead with it just based on that alone, tbh!)

StarlightWonderStarlightBright Wed 29-Dec-10 13:20:33

Thanks silver and pag That's helpful. I have a starting point now which is what I needed.

Leonie I'll take you up on that offer. Let me know the postage costs.

ArthurPewty Wed 29-Dec-10 13:22:39

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

silverfrog Wed 29-Dec-10 13:26:45

I htink Halvorsen's clinic has a website too - not masses of info, iirc, but some.

will try to find it, ahng on....

Marne Wed 29-Dec-10 13:27:37

I would go for the individual injections even if it ment paying for them. Dd1 has AS before her jabs (was obvious from birth), dd2 showed no signs of ASD until after her first MMR and then she reacted badly to the MMR booster. If i had another child i would pay for the individual injections.

silverfrog Wed 29-Dec-10 13:30:21

this is HAlvorsen's website, which talks a little about some of the issues, and links to his immunisation clinic.

<I think it would be worth reading Wakefiled's book on the MMR fiasco too - it is interesting to read his side of how the whole thing unfolded, and does lead ot some very interesting questions, if you ask me.

Obviously that is not about jabs on the whole, but the wider implications of the mmr stuff, eg not handing out info when asked, and jsut hoping that the general population will take info handed out by gps and not question it at all, is covered a little. Happy to lend my copy, if you do want ot read it>

mumtoted Wed 29-Dec-10 13:30:41

I find 'The Informed Parent' very helpful. They produce regular up to date news letters with articles, for and against, from all over the world.

StarlightWonderStarlightBright Wed 29-Dec-10 13:39:05

Brilliant. Thank you. Just the kind of information etc. I was hoping for to begin with.

How do I get the GP to agree to test ds for immunity? What do I have to ask for/say?

FrostyPhlebas Wed 29-Dec-10 13:56:58

we're in a similar position Star - ds 4yo with autism has had everything up to his MMR booster (he was actually on an accelerated programme and had the initial MMR at 12mo). He did have some regression & loss of skills & does have bowel issues that we haven't been able to get to the bottom of & also eczema. He will not be having the MMR booster. I don't believe that the MMR caused his autism, but I am also not convinced that there is no risk to him from the booster.

DD2 is 18mo & I'm sure is NT, she has not had the MMR but had all of the others. I haven't yet decided if/when I'll be happy for her to have the MMR.

DD1 is much older & had the MMR at 3 and a booster at 5.5 - she's NT though had a significant language delay.

ArthurPewty Wed 29-Dec-10 13:57:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StarlightWonderStarlightBright Wed 29-Dec-10 14:00:35

Leonie If you have a mo grin

Pleb It's difficult isn't it? God I'd love a third child. Do you have to be really brave?

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