Saddle Fitting - what to expect !

[NoProblem123]

I’ve had my new 3 year old gelding for 6 weeks and although he’s backed and has been riding out nicely before I brought him, since I’ve had him I’ve only ridden him 3 times. He was very difficult to mount the first time and is clearly a napper so I’ve spent the time doing lots of Join Up and ground work with a friend who does this professionally.
Mounting now with a mounting block is excellent, stands still and doesn’t walk off once I’m on. He’s also now lunging and long reining nicely and moves forward from his nap a lot quicker as he listens better and is gaining confidence (as am I)
Progress is slow but I think this is time well spend. His manners generally a lot nicer too.

Anywho, I’ve a saddle fitter coming out at the end of the month to fit/adjust a Cair saddle I’ve brought for him as it might be contributing to his napping (maybe not sure) but what will they be expecting of me on the day in terms of riding him ? I don’t think I’ll be trotting and cantering by then - will they need me to be ?
Sorry for sounding a bit dim I’m just trying to do all the right things for him.

[Booboostwo]

This is a bit arse backwards. First you get the saddle fitter out, they try a few saddles and you buy the one that fits. It’s very likely the saddle you have bought does not fit the horse and this will be contributing, if not wholly causing, his napping issues. Given his young and impressionable age, you risk causing problems for life.

Get a (decent) saddle fitter out ASAP. They should turn up with a number of saddles and try 2-3 on the horse. They’ll need to see the horse ridden, ideally in all gaits. Can you not get someone more experienced to trot and canter the horse?

Also, you may need a vet out first to check the horse is not in pain from an ill fitting saddle.

[NoProblem123]

Thanks for reply.

New saddle is adjustable with the CAIR bars that swop at the front. Horse came with old saddle so that’s what he’s been ridden in up to now.
Hasn’t been ridden at all since napping started but appreciate your advice regarding long term problems from an ill fitting saddle, which is why I’ve booked the saddle fitter to come out.

Vet and dentist also done, just waiting on saddle fitter.

[RatherBeRiding]

So, the saddle you've bought for him - it wasn't fitted before you bought it? Even an "adjustable" saddle needs expertly fitting. I got an adjustable saddle for my pony when he was backed - but got advice from saddle fitter beforehand as to which type would suit. She looked at him, measured him, and advised according to his particular shape (native pony type).

Saddle needed adjusting a few times once he was backed and ridden away, as his muscle tone changed dramatically. I was told at the outset that I would be lucky to get 2 years out of that particular saddle as it wouldn't do once he was mature. Indeed, he grew another 1.5" from 3 to 5 and filled out a hell of a lot. Now in a completely different make and model of saddle.

I would take the advice of your saddle fitter. Ideally they do need to see how the saddle looks when ridden but if all you can do is walk and trot, then that's what they will make do with. A good fitter will also NOT attempt to "fit" a saddle that clearly doesn't fit the particular shape of horse (high withered, flat backed, bit shoulders etc). What fits a cob or native type is unlikely to fit a TB.

[NoProblem123]

Thanks for reply.

No it wasn’t fitted before I brought him but it will be expertly fitted before I start using it.
Interesting that yours ‘outgrew’ an adjustable- what make was it ?
He came with a saddle but I don’t think he’s happy in it, and is possibly causing/contributing to him napping as pp suggested. I agree, it could have once fitted but maybe not now, but that one’s not adjustable. That’s why I’ve brought an adjustable one to fit his changing shape as he develops.
Fitter adjusts saddles on some young horses every 3 months apparently, but those don’t have the adjustable bars or the cair, he puts them under a heater thing and moulds them to get them just right. I’ll see what he says on the day.

[Booboostwo]

Most modern saddles are adjustable and many with a much greater degree of flexibility than the CAIR system. And still saddle models come in different basic shapes so the saddle must first be fitted to the horse and you need to feel how the horse responds under different saddles. It is possible that the saddle won’t fit your horse even though it is adjustable.

Yes, as above a 3yo will outgrow his saddle in a couple of years.

If you have even the tiniest suspicion that the napping is pain related get the vet out now because if a young horse associates saddles and work with pain it creates lifelong problems.

Out of interest, is this your first youngster and your first horse?

[NoProblem123]

No, several horses over several years, Various ages, mostly a lot older than this one though.

Vet has been and all good so I’ll wait for saddle fitter and see what he says and see how the horse goes in it. He’ll no doubt have others with him anyway so hopefully will be a productive appointment.

[RatherBeRiding]

The saddle he was in for backing and riding away was a Thorowgood T4 Pony Club. Great little starter saddle but the tree can only be adjusted so far on any saddle and different tree shapes for different horses. As a 5 year old, schooled up, muscled up and with great top line he was a totally different shape and needed a different fitting tree. He is now in an Ideal either VSD or WH . As he's grown and matured he can now get away with a slightly longer seat than his starter saddle. Any good fitter will fit the saddle to the horse and not the horse to the saddle. I've always taken advice on what tree and shape suits the horse e.g.one of mine is croup high, no withers, short backed with massive shoulders. A forward cut jump saddle with a curved would be out of the question!

[RatherBeRiding]

Curved tree! Doh!!

[NoProblem123]

It never actually occurred to me that an adjustable saddle might not fit - you learn something every day !

This has made me wonder now why anyone buys (or anywhere sells) saddles other than a professional saddle fitter, and therefore, why there’s any secondhand market for used saddles !

Also, that when backing horses, do you professionally fit first and then proceed to back ? Or should you back first with a potentially ill fitting saddle?
It’s a bit chicken and egg.

In all the years I’ve had horses I’ve never had a professional saddle fitter see one of my horses. Maybe I’ve been lucky and not had any problems to necessitate this.

[RatherBeRiding]

I have a good friend who is a fully qualified master saddle fitter! What I've learned from her has been invaluable. She does sell 2nd hand saddles because they can, and do, fit certain horses, but you have to have the expertise to know what kind of tree and cut of saddle etc will suit what shape of horse. Adjustable is fine as far as it does, but won't alter the basic shape of the tree or the fact that a forward cut jump saddle just won't suit a big shouldered cobby type. Likewise, a flatter tree, straighter cut flap saddle that will suit a native flat backed type won't get you round Badminton!
A LOT or horses will stoically put up with an ill fitting saddle and often a problem only comes to light when the horse starts refusing jumps, bucking, rearing or actually goes lame because of back problems. I'm lucky in that I have a very stroppy mare who will rear vertical if uncomfortable in her saddle. So as long as she's relaxed, going forward and pinging jumps I know her saddle is fine.

With backing - a lot of people rely on any old saddle just to get the horse to the point of having a rider sit on them and walk round. Then get a saddle fitted for riding away. With my 3 year old I didn't have a suitable saddle even to borrow as he was at the time nearly a hand smaller than my others and very un-muscled. So my friendly saddle fitter had a good look, took measurements and we managed to actually get a borrowed pony saddle on him - after a bit of ring round the roses in a barn as at that point the only thing he'd had on his back was a rug - but it gave a good indication of how that particular make of saddle was sitting. Then she recommended me the Thorowgood - which I later sold on for a very good price as they are a great little pony saddle!
Yes, saddle fitting is a cross between a science and an art form. If you want the best performance from your horse you need to find an excellent fitter and hang onto them!

[Booboostwo]

Saddles are a huge nightmare. Sometimes you have one that looks like it fits perfectly but the horse just disagrees. I once had a successful dressage horse with beautiful loose paces who started at a relatively advanced age (medium, half-passes, flying changes) to refuse to even work on the bit. Cue massive vet workup and all he could find was that the gullet of the saddle was pinching the spinal cord. Two three hour sessions with the saddle fitter later and we saw a huge difference with different saddles, all of which fitted in principle. Both the saddle fitter and I could see and feel the difference within a couple of strides in trot. Ended up with a treeless of all things, but this is what the horse loved, so there you go.

No one should buy a second hand saddle without having it fitted really. If you have already tried the make/model/size you want and you find it second hand, and know how to check for a broken tree, you can take a chance, but otherwise it's the saddle fitter every time.

I think you've just been lucky. I've had horses with the same saddle for years and years with no problems, working at a relatively high level (I mention this because while horses can put up with pain I don't think they can put up with pain and perform), and others that change saddles every two years!

Then you have to take the rider into consideration. Some of the higher price range ones can make a huge difference. I LOVE my Devocoux for how easy it makes it for me to do sitting trot, even though I think their prices are ridiculous and the customer service appalling.

[Frouby]

Was in a similar situation to you OP. Recently backed youngster, backing saddle didn't fit well enough to do anything other than sit on. Needed a fitted one.

My saddler came out (twice as first lot didn't fit) and we agreed on a saddle (an ideal H and C which is fabulously comfortable). He said it fitted the pony now, but she will change and develop as she matures and starts more consistent work. He's coming back when she is walking/trotting/cantering and will reassess and reflock saddle. Its hardly been used so he says the flock will settle and he can then work with her to get it perfect.

He told me a saddle is like a pair of boots. When we buy them they don't necessarily fit perfectly, we get as close as we can and wear them in to fit us. If we change shape (lose or gain weight) they may not fit. As work increases they may not fit. And we may need a different pair of boots within a couple of years. Whilst a new pair of boots is standard nothing fits better than your own boots as long as you maintain them with inner soles etc.

So you need a fitter to fit him for now, then reassess later on.

Saddle fitting seems to have changed massively. 25 years ago unless you were a showjumper or dressage rider you had a GP saddle in narrow, medium or wide. And that was pretty much it unless you had a made to measure. These days it's all very technical. And while that is a good thing as we understand more, I never met a horse with a bad back because of a saddle and no one ever struggled to find a saddle to fit even the widest of horses.

[RatherBeRiding]

Frouby - you must be lucky not to have encountered a horse with back problems caused by ill fitting saddles. It can start out as soreness then worsen as the horse tries to avoid the discomfort by hollowing, or carrying themselves in such a way that stiffness ensues, leading to more problems and - if you are very unlucky - an element of lameness. I've experienced sore backs with saddles more than once. I regularly dig my fingers either side of the spine and slide them backwards - no reaction - all fine. Dipping away from the fingers in an "ouch" kind of movement - sore back. Time to call the saddle fitter!

[Frouby]

@ratherberiding I was referring to 20+ years ago. Certainly these days many problems get attributed to poorly fotting saddles. But never heard it waaaay back when.

[Booboostwo]

Frouby my first horse then! Exactly 25 years ago. She came with no tack so I went to the tack shop and asked for everything I would need for my new horse. They sold me a saddle just like that. I rode in it for two weeks and the horse got progressively more bonkers to the point where she was becoming dangerous. Vet came out, the saddle was so ill fitting that the horse was in pain. The horse needed three months off work to recover and the vet was so furious he returned the saddle to the tack shop himself. I don’t know what he said to them but he got my money back. The horse, despite being 12yo when all this happened developed a negative association with saddles and had to be girthed very diplomatically for the rest of her life.

[Vanhi]

This has made me wonder now why anyone buys (or anywhere sells) saddles other than a professional saddle fitter, and therefore, why there’s any secondhand market for used saddles !

I'm very wary of saddle fitters as I've known very well qualified fitters make a complete balls up. In the end, the best way to tell is to ask the horse, but you do have to be very clued in because they do disguise pain.

You can have a fitter bring out many saddles and attempt a fitting. You might find they haven't got anything but say 'get hold of a 17" MW Ideal, preferably a VSD, and I'll see him in that'. They know which make and type is likely to fit, albeit with some adjustment, and which just won't suit your horse.

Saddle fitting is a nightmare but there are good reasons why you can just get saddles without going through a fitter. Also, bear in mind that it isn't a one-off thing. Like shoes which fit OK in the shop but start to pinch after you've walked a few miles, a saddle can initially appear to fit but then create sore points. This can happen without the horse changing shape.

[Frouby]

I think a lot of it is down to knowledge and experience of the average owner and yard owner/ manager as well.

When I was a child and teen the yard owner had about 100 saddles and a busy riding school and also did some buying and selling as well as breaking and schooling. She knew every saddle she had and whenever there was a new pony on the yard would bring 2 or 3 to try on and at least one would fit. Never had anything end up with a bad back. At 15/16 I would also be able to suss out usually which tack wpuld fit what pony if the wrong saddle had been loaded into the land rover that morning.

We have about 10 saddle fitters that advertise covering our area. Only 1 is a master saddler, the rest are basically mobile tack shop owners with maybe a basic knowledge or qualification.

Add to that all the different styles and designs that are available nowadays, plus physios and back people and massages and chiropractors and equimassagers and all of a sudden there is a brand new industry to support.

I used a master saddler. I wouldn't use anyone else but if I had access to enough saddles and knew the horse or pony I think I could get pretty close to a decent fit for a leisure horse. As good as an average fitter anyway.

Use a master saddler if you have a fitting especially if you aren't confident or don't have access to a range of saddles.

The saddle I have ended up with is the Ideal Highland and Cob. I have tried to buy 3 before the fitter came. He knew looking at her that is what she needed. I didn't tell him what I wanted but we both reached the same point independently.