Bit question

[Treblesallround]

Gd's doing her first hunter trial next week, and XC rally on Saturday. Pony is sweet natured and genuine but a bit green so just going for experience. She was beautifully behaved out hunting so I'm fairly confident she'll behave but I am going to put her in something a bit stronger than her usual snaffle for safety.

She was in a gag for hunting but really didn't need anything quite that severe, and I hate over-bitting so we're thinking of trying a uttoxeter kimblewick. Do you think that sounds a reasonable compromise? At the moment she has a running martingale, does anyone know whether it's compatible with a kimblewick? My instinct is to take it off, but I'd value advice on this

[SaggyOldClothCatPuss]

I'm not sure about the martingale, I'd say probably yes, but better to wait for someone who actually knows to come along. What I did want to say was please try the bit before you go out xc. Don't send a green youngster out somewhere new in untried tack.

[bonzo77]

If pony went well in the gag, but you feel it's a bit strong, could you not put the reins on one of the rings closer to the bit to reduce the action a bit? Not sure about the martingale, but would tend to agree with saggy to stick with a tried and tested tack combo if trying a new event.

[marialuisa]

Was it a 3-ring or 4-ring gag? Was thinking you could go to a 3-ring if it was a 4? I think if you go from gag and martingale to kimblewick only you're increasing the chances of dpony chucking her head up (if that's something she likes to do) as the kimblewick won't put as much pressure on the poll as the gag.

[SaggyOldClothCatPuss]

As an aside, I bloody HATE gag bits. They are EVIL! And if used should be used with two reins. Nobody ever does!

[SparkyMcSparrow]

I used two reins when I had to use a gag. Bit tricky to start with but you get used to it quickly.

It winds me up too! I used to see people with one rein on the last ring and wonder why their horses were tossing their head around

Back to the subject OP I second what everyone else says, make sure you try it out a few times before hand. It might compleatly throw your pony if she hasn't ever tried it before. No idea about the martingale though I'm a snaffle girl usually :)

[Treblesallround]

Saggy, that's my view too, ie that you need a second rein on the lower ring, and whilst GD has nice hands she's not experienced with 2 reins and could hurt her pony inadvertently, or not be able to use it quickly enough if she needs it. (incidentally, didn't have a martingale on with the gag, I think that would be mean).

I think it was the amount of poll pressure the pony didn't like with the gag. She was very good, but I could tell she wasn't happy and I think less is more when it comes to bits, otherwise she might just fight against it. Better if she's happy and comfortable and cooperative. I suspect she might be ok in her snaffle but I'm nervous about GD not being able to stop, given the pony's green

We tried her in the kimblewick in the indoor school last night (without martingale), which went well and we're hacking out after school so will try her in open spaces in it. I'd never change tack and just hope for the best, especially in front of Pony Club mums

[SaggyOldClothCatPuss]

I'd be really tempted if it was me, to put the pony in something really mild, in the safety of the school, and experiment, trading up until she has brakes.
A gag is an incredibly mean bit, and about as strong as it gets. What about one of those Wilkie bits, with the rings inside the snaffle ring. If the pony is in pain, or uncomfortable in too strong a bit, it will become evasive, which leads to a stronger bit and a stronger bit, martingales and other gadgets in an attempt to get it under control. we've seen this so often. And dpony is only a youngster. It would be awful to ruin his mouth.?
In terms of strength, it's a long way from snaffle to gag.
Our local tack shop will let you buy one bit, try it, and return it for an exchange until you are happy.
If my horsey friend guru was here, she would say, the problem is with the rider, being inexperienced, it's not fair to truss up a youngster, and Gd needs to get more experience before going out of their comfort zone.

[Treblesallround]

Saggy, don't wilkies have the same action as a gag but with less leverage? I absolutely agree about the vicious circle people get into when they increase bit severity and use gadgets. It's really counter-productive, hence pony never having the gag in again. she's got a lovely mouth and I don't want it spoilt.

The kimblewick (straight mouth, not jointed) is only a bit stronger than the filet-boucher which is dressage legal so I don't tink the pony is 'trussed up' in it. Gd's not out of her comfort zone, I am!

[SaggyOldClothCatPuss]

wilkies do have a bit of gag action, but waay less than the gag it all comes from inside the main ring, whereas the gag has the hanging rings. How about a hanging cheek snaffle, also similar. Kimblewicks have a curb chain, which adds to the effect.

[Treblesallround]

Hanging cheek next time, I do like them, but I've already got too much grey hair!

[frostyfingers]

Have you considered a Waterford Snaffle - I've used one on both my TB's who hated/hate the pressure on the poll from a gag. It is particularly effective if you have a "leaner" or one who puts his head in his chest as they can't really get hold of the bit - it's lots of small links - see below, copied from H&H Forum.

What is a Waterford?

The Waterford snaffle looks like a line of ball-and-chain link. It usually comes with plain loose snaffle rings although you can also buy Waterfords with full cheeks or gag-type rings.


It is a flexible bit that moulds round the horse's mouth, creating an even pressure. It is moveable in all directions and horses find it difficult to lean or take hold of it, giving the rider good levels of control.


Martyn Welsh, bitting expert at Equiport, adds: "Strong horses seem to accept the Waterford rather than a Pelham or curb-type bit as its action is broken when the horse goes to set its jaw. The bit is very loose in the horse's mouth so they seem to mouth more with this bit."

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