Why are primary and secondary school teachers paid the same if secondary school teachers have a degree and then do a PGCE?

[worried63xx]

Just a genuine question really, not meant to antagonise.
Don't secondary school teachers have to have better qualifications to get into teaching?

[Doubleraspberry]

Primary school teachers do a PGCE too.

[hoxt]

But you need a degree and a PGCE to teach primary!

[worried63xx]

Surely for primary mainly your degree is the teaching degree you go straight into from A Levels not a degree in another actual subject?

[Willow4987]

Not necessarily. Your degree could be in anything and then you do the PGCE to become a qualified teacher

[Fuzzyspringroll]

I have two degrees and a PGCE. I teach primary.
Lots of primary school teachers don't have an education or teaching degree but a PGCE.

[shadowlily]

It's exactly the same for primary teachers as secondary. You do a degree such as Maths, English Literature, Geography etc. Then afterwards you do a PGCE. You can do education as your degree but I don't know any teachers who did that, and after that degree you can then go into primary or secondary anyway!

[CallmeAngelina]

Not necessarily. You can do a PGCE in either Primary or Secondary.
And yes, you can do a straight B.Ed leading you straight into a primary classroom, but a for secondary, a degree in another subject doesn't train you for actually teaching it, so you need the PGCE as well.

[Chanel05]

I did an English degree, followed by a PGCE and I'm a primary teacher.

[Cantchooseaname]

An education degree with qualified teacher status is a 4 year course- incorporates the degree in education and the professional qualification.
But I know very few teachers that did it. I have history degree and pgce, mainly taught primary including early years.

[BonnyConnie]

Imagine room of 30 5 year olds.

[MeMeMeYou]

I’m primary and my degree is psychology and linguistics. I teach all subjects to 3-7. I had to pick a specialism for my primary course, for that they looked at your degree, but although linguistics related to English they had enough English specialists so they picked my best A level which was Art. Since I’ve been employed no one has cared about my specialism and I’ve been in charge of DT, ICT, Maths and SEN over the years.

[saraclara]

Back when I started teaching forty years ago, most primary teachers did education degrees.

That's not been the case for a while. It's now the norm to do a degree in another subject and then do a PGCE

Having said that, why do you think an education degree is worth less than a degree in anything else?

[pasbeaucoupdegendarme]

I’m a primary teacher with a MA and a PGCE... and I’m not a rare breed!

[AnduinsGirl]

So glad you took 30 seconds on Google to address your misconceptions, OP, instead of diving in with an irritatingly incorrect thread.

[MeMeMeYou]

Primary PGCE course I should say. There are quite a few routes to teaching nowadays.

[pasbeaucoupdegendarme]

V good question, @saraclara.

[Aragog]

There are lots of ways into teaching.

I am a qualified secondary school teacher and have a BEd Business Education degree. It was with QTS and therefore no need to do a PGCE. My subject specialisms was ICT, Computing, Business, and Economics.

Dd plans to go to university to become a primary school teacher. She plans to do a BA Primary Education. Depending on where she goes she will choose a subject specialism and/or an age specialism. The degree has QTS and therefore no degree is required.

The other main alternative to doing an education degree in both secondary and primary is a subject degree, followed by a PGCE year. Some may follow other ways into teaching once they have their degree - there are a few routes out there.

The PGCE (and the other alternatives) covers education theory and a lot of work experience. This is incorporated into the education degrees.

QTS is qualified teacher status. On completing a relevant course - be that an education degree, PGCE or whatever you are then recommended by the university or college for QTS. The Teaching Regulation Agency (TRA) are responsible for awarding this.

[Aragog]

An education degree with qualified teacher status is a 4 year course


For primary most are actually 3 years. Of the ones we have been to the Open Days for, only Nottingham Trent was 4 years.

[worried63xx]

@saraclara I don't think it's less. I am counting a degree in english for example as one qualification and then PGCE as the next. The majority of primary teachers I know are doing the 3 year straight into primary qualification which is one qualification. So therefore logically I wondered surely secondary might get paid more if they have that extra qualification? Just like someone with a masters might get a higher position or wages.
As I said I didn't meant to antagonise and I didn't realise many people did primary PGCE. I was under the assumption from a lot of primary teachers I know that the 3 year education degree was the main route and I was curious.

[swashbucklecheer]

I did a BEd and I teach in secondary. (Was trained for primary thou!)

[Aragog]

Various routes into teaching in England, for both primary and secondary: www.ucas.com/postgraduate/teacher-training/train-teach-england/routes-teaching-england?filter=

It is also worth noting that although a teacher may train in a specific sector - primary or secondary for example - they are actually qualified to teach in either sector once they have their qualification and QTS. I have known teachers do this in both directions.

[Aragog]

Just like someone with a masters might get a higher position or wages.

In teaching you don't get a more money just cause you gain additional qualifications along the way. If a qualified teacher does a masters they won't automatically get a pay increase.

[YourOpinionIsNoted]

BEd is four years, not three. 3yr degree + 1, same as pgce + degree.

[maudspellbody]

The only people I know who did B.eds are secondary school teachers. All of my primary colleagues did first degree/PGCE, or like me, Degree, PGCE and M.ed.

So no. In no way are secondary teachers 'more qualified' as a rule.

[Aragog]

The most important thing you need for teaching in England and Wales is QTS. You cannot work in a maintained school without it.