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PISA test chat anyone?

(52 Posts)
Piggywaspushed Tue 03-Dec-19 15:46:49

Come on noble you know you want to!

Reading whole article is very interesting. Tories claim we have got miles better and that rigour is paying off. However, despite rise in rankings actual scores are about the same.

Ant the wellbeing stuff is shocking! At what emotional and mental health cost all this??

Time to stop looking to Asia (failed already in maths with this) and look genuinely closely at Estonia? But the Tories don't want to know about that because it goes against every single agenda : no school til 7, no Ofsted, no grammar schools, no testing regimes. no setting at all (sorry noble) and-lo- high scores and high wellbeing.

However, they are having some recruitment issues in Estonia.

I would like to note that we do do better at post 16 and university than lots of these countries, especially Asia, so there is something to be said for our teaching of independent thought.

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cabbageking Tue 03-Dec-19 19:18:04

Have a look at FFT for data behind the PiSA data

Eatsshoootsandleaves Tue 03-Dec-19 19:52:50

I've had a look through. Curious as to why children in Wales are scoring so much lower than the rest of the UK?

Piggywaspushed Tue 03-Dec-19 20:39:06

I have read quite a bit lately about how much of a shitshow the curriculum for Wales is, but know nothing about it.

It might also be relative poverty.

Tbh the Scottish and NO education systems have always been quite highly rated so I am a bit surprised England does, overall, better.

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Piggywaspushed Tue 03-Dec-19 20:39:16

NI not NO

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Piggywaspushed Tue 03-Dec-19 20:41:14

In fact, the Scottish graph is by far and away he most interesting!

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Pipstelle Tue 03-Dec-19 20:44:29

The well-being data is atrocious never mind the rest....but I think that's a larger culturally issue as well

noblegiraffe Tue 03-Dec-19 21:04:37

Curious as to why children in Wales are scoring so much lower than the rest of the UK?

They scrapped league tables and standards dropped. It’s always given as a reason why we should keep them here.

Piggywaspushed Tue 03-Dec-19 21:05:33

But, actually, their standards may still be low but they have gone up a lot in the last couple of years?

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noblegiraffe Tue 03-Dec-19 21:14:27

But the trend is fairly flat for Wales from 2006, Scotland is a bit all over the place too.

Finland on the other hand has a clear negative trend that will hopefully put that fad to bed for good.

It is a bit annoying that we’ve had years of cuts and a crisis in teaching and we’ve gone up. People will be tempted to say ‘well things can’t be that bad then’. I don’t think we can draw any firm conclusions based on one set of results.

Piggywaspushed Tue 03-Dec-19 21:22:46

We haven't actually gone up though in terms of actual results... the results in reading are the only ones that have actually gone up.

My understanding is that Scotland had a big trough and there have been positive changes made which have rapidly improved things.

Was Finland ever a fad? I don't think we ever adopted any of their thinking!

Estonia and Canada would be more interesting case studies, Canada especially perhaps.

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noblegiraffe Tue 03-Dec-19 21:29:04

Maths has gone up by a ‘statistically significant’ amount.

Piggywaspushed Tue 03-Dec-19 21:37:12

Sorry, yes, got maths and reading muddled,as you do...

Not sure the Tories will want us to know that all that phonics stuff may not have done much...

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Piggywaspushed Tue 03-Dec-19 21:38:00

Lucy Crehan visited Canada in Cleverlands : it sounded great.

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noblegiraffe Tue 03-Dec-19 21:41:50

The story behind maths seems to be that the strong kids have got stronger and the weak kids haven’t made much progress.

Which could possibly come from the new GCSE stretching the top end, but really isn’t my gut feeling from teaching A-level!

Piggywaspushed Tue 03-Dec-19 21:57:00

This is a better and more detailed article , I think :

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noblegiraffe Wed 04-Dec-19 11:02:00

I think the mood of the whole country has plummeted since 2015, it’s rather unsurprising that our children should be affected. Is there a survey of adults that asks a similar question?

noblegiraffe Wed 04-Dec-19 11:04:29

I’m hoping that Germany will stop coming up in education discussions (alongside Finland). ‘Oh but they have such good vocational education in Germany, we should copy them and stream the less academic into plumbing courses’.

As the graph shows, Germany is terrible on the measure of social equity. France too, what is their problem??

Piggywaspushed Wed 04-Dec-19 17:10:27

Yes, Germany is an interesting example always used. I thought France was good on equity but clearly not.

Germany is highly selective. My DS went to a specialist music gymnasium their on an exchange. He found their lessons very different. Very formal. But the students themselves better behaved and 'happier'. Interesting!

There was a survey of adults and we did come very low. They also surveyed across the UK. Orkney came top several years running.

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Piggywaspushed Wed 04-Dec-19 17:11:59

I think all the above average in reading but below average in equity have some form of selective education as standard, although I know nothing of Belgium!

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RafaIsTheKingOfClay Wed 04-Dec-19 17:52:09

I wouldn’t bet on the Finnish myth dying out.

Piggywaspushed Wed 04-Dec-19 18:05:04

I don't think it is a myth. Even if it is sliding a little, it massively punches about its weight.

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noblegiraffe Wed 04-Dec-19 18:05:37

‘The Finns don’t start formal education until 7’ will just be replaced with ‘Estonians don’t start formal education until 7’.

Piggywaspushed Wed 04-Dec-19 18:12:29

But it is true...

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RafaIsTheKingOfClay Wed 04-Dec-19 20:02:01

I don’t think Finland’s raw scores have just dropped a bit, have they? At best they’re levelling off a downward trend that’s lasted over a decade. Their raw scores have fallen further than any other country in the OECD and still seem to be falling.

As far as school starting ages go it’s a bit pointless trying to draw any conclusion from PISA data.

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