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Whether you're a permanent teacher, supply teacher or student teacher, you'll find others in the same situation on our Staffroom forum.

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Whether you're a permanent teacher, supply teacher or student teacher, you'll find others in the same situation on our Staffroom forum.

The staffroom

Not getting shortlisted

30 replies

Ella1980 · 16/03/2019 12:44

I'm an M6 with 15 years experience in primary teaching. Very passionate about my career but looking to move school. But just can't seem to even get shortlisted! Guess it's NQT season? Also, I do wonder if I'm not "conservative" enough for teaching at times?

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Soontobe60 · 16/03/2019 12:56

Have you had someone look at your applications?
I'd say if a job says NQTs welcome to apply, you're probably too expensive.

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newcamper · 16/03/2019 13:02

I would say being conservative is not a requirement in teaching. Times have changed. Why are you only on M6 with 15 years teaching under your belt? Not a dig-genuine question as looking for context to help.

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Ella1980 · 16/03/2019 13:53

I was at a tiny village school for twelve years and there were only two mixed age classes- I taught in both (in between two maternity leaves to have my sons). So there wasn't really opportunity for promotion.

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Ella1980 · 16/03/2019 13:54

Nearly all of them say NQTs welcome to apply!

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Livvylovesgin · 16/03/2019 14:05

I am involved in shortlisting for schools so hope I can give you some tips from recent experiences.

You must meet every aspect of the criteria set for the role. Don't assume that we know you do and always give examples. ( impact of your actions not a list of 'have done this or that)

A common one I see is under safeguarding. This either isn't addressed in the application or a standard statement is trotted out ' I have full regard for safeguarding' without an example.

Always make the application relevant to each school, we can so tell when this is a standard application, 'cut and paste' for the next school.
In particular, I have been supporting church schools where applicants haven't mentioned anything to match the religious aspects of the school so again score poorly.

Shortlisting is ( in my LA) an anonymised numbers game. Very impersonal but has to be to be a fair process.

So:
Anonymised application
Set of criteria
Scoring grid
Match application to criteria and give score
Count up each score
Shortlist highest scoring applicants.

A focus on your application is needed. Good luck!

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Ella1980 · 16/03/2019 15:45

@Livvylovesgin Thank you so much, that is all really helpful 😊

In your experience do you think it's even worth me applying as an experienced M6 if job ad states NQTs welcome to apply?

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Holidayshopping · 16/03/2019 16:35

We have recently advertised for a class teacher and needed someone cheap-that was the only criteria!

The ad stated ‘NQTs welcome’ but what it actually meant was ‘don’t bother applying if you’re not an NQT as we can’t afford you.’

The advertised position has been referred to by SLT for weeks as ‘the NQT’ with staff talking aboutwhere the NQT will go/what classroom the NQT will have/what year group they will have etc. It’s a done deal and the head was actually quite bemused when experience people came to look around and said ‘why are they applying-the ad says NQT!’

As I said the ad said ‘NQTs welcome’, but that is not what was meant!

If they can get someone for £22k, but you cost £32k, you sadly don’t get a look in if the budget is shite.

Our NQT was duly appointed and starts in September!

The only posts in our school seem to be NQT, mainscale tracher denied any progressional pay increments, deputy head or head!

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flowery · 16/03/2019 16:37

It will be the money- you’re an awful lot more expensive than an NQT, and there just isn’t the ‘give’ in school budgets to allow for that.

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Holidayshopping · 16/03/2019 18:44

It’s actually over £35k for MPS6, so hardly surprising they are going for NQTs if they’re skint.

UPS is even worse

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Ella1980 · 16/03/2019 22:07

Yes, it's a nightmare. Especially with budgets in schools being tight. Getting a job as an M6 is proving virtually impossible! It seems to me unless you're a NQT then you don't really stand much of a chance.

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Livvylovesgin · 17/03/2019 16:37

NQT or experienced staff depends on the school needs. If the school is under significant pressure to improve or has lots of inexperienced staff then an NQT wouldn't necessarily get the job. Similarly a solidly good school with lots of experienced staff would have the capacity to employ and support an NQT. In an LA maintained school ( not academy) my LA would be very clear about the needs of the school when supporting the needs analysis process.

When I advertised I couldn't find any experienced staff. We desperately needed an experienced teacher to be able to have impact on improving the school; a TLR2 was added to the main scale post.
We didn't have any applications from suitably experienced and committed teachers.
The majority of applicants were NQT's, perhaps naive in thinking they can make a difference whereas experienced teachers knew the hard work ahead and perhaps weren't prepared to make the move from their own teaching post. We advertised more than once for the same post.

Research the school, read their OFSTED, look at current staffing when you go to look around. Evaluate need before making an application. Better to make fewer very specific applications than many general any school will do ones!

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Livvylovesgin · 18/03/2019 11:36

Added some more information in answer to your question @Ella1980. Good luck with the job hunting!

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Ella1980 · 20/03/2019 23:16

@Livvylovesgin Aw thank you very much, really useful advice. I'm looking around a couple of schools Friday (although I want hold my breath as ads both say NQT suitable) and another one on Monday which is SEN teacher so not NQT suitable. Contrary to popular belief, it is pretty hard to get a new job as an experienced teacher 😩

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Ella1980 · 20/03/2019 23:18

*won't even!

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GreenTulips · 20/03/2019 23:21

If your existing school is quite small than you most have been involved in all sorts running the school?
Can you mention all the additional responsibilities you’ve taken on?

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Heyha · 20/03/2019 23:24

Loads of good advice here so won't repeat but as someone who occasionally gets involved in teacher shortlisting I'd be wondering why you hadn't gone into the upper pay scale after 15 years as that's only down to performance management not promotion- it could look like you've had your automatic increments to M6 (as it used to be) then not been put through threshold for some reason. I am secondary though so it may be a primary thing not to be, but STPCD is universal isn't it?

Not that being UPS will help with the cost thing which I think is the most likely explanation, it's just that it would raise a question with me and if I had a big field I prob wouldn't feel the need to find out the answer.

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Ella1980 · 20/03/2019 23:29

I was never put through threshold and didn't question it-working in such a tiny school I never really considered it if that makes sense? Yes I was there 12 years but had two mat leaves to have my two boys in between and then only returned part-time.

But as someone said, most of the time it was literally only me and one teacher sharing a mixed-age class (R/1/2) and then the Head teaching 3/4/5/6 or the other way around. So lots of experience across all Key Stages as well as lots of responsibility.

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Holidayshopping · 21/03/2019 18:56

Contrary to popular belief, it is pretty hard to get a new job as an experienced teacher

I don’t actually thing that’s contrary to popular belief, to be honest-it’s fairly well known that heads don’t want experienced staff.

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Ella1980 · 21/03/2019 19:31

@Holidayshopping By those in education, no. But lots of my friends and family not in teaching say "Well they're crying out for teachers" and "Teachers are in short supply." Cheaper ones can land a job, maybe, but much harder for those with experience!

I'm starting to think I should give up but really can't afford to. What else could I do?

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Heyha · 21/03/2019 19:36

Keep trying but look for jobs that might be a bit much for an NQT (like the SEN one you mentioned). Do you feel ready for a leadership role? You could work towards that as an escape plan if you don't feel ready yet.
Be a shame to leave teaching if you are happy doing it but just in need of a fresh school 🙂

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Holidayshopping · 21/03/2019 19:36

What else could I do?

I do sympathise, I’m in exactly the same position!

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Ella1980 · 21/03/2019 19:43

It's a nightmare isn't it? We just don't have the money for me to drop salary and/or retrain.

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Holidayshopping · 21/03/2019 20:43

Nope, me neither. I’m only 42 as well so have a lot of years left to work being miserable and expensive :(

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Ella1980 · 21/03/2019 21:06

@Holidayshopping Do you still enjoy your job?

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katycb · 21/03/2019 21:18

I have this too I'm on UPS1 but have been part time for a few years. I get told that I'm too expensive for ordinary teaching posts and that my management experience is too long ago for tlr posts! Feel so stuck but have applied for a sats intervention job which doesn't say nqt on it and have an interview next week so fingers crossed