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Question for teachers/school leaders

(32 Posts)
fleshmarketclose Sun 09-Dec-18 14:13:36

If the LA were to place a child in your school but outsource the academics to tutors teaching 1 to 1 and paying £40k pa for the privilege what problems do you foresee? Should add that the tutors would be teaching at a level above what the school generally caters for so tutors teaching GCSE's to one child in a school that does not have a GCSE curricculum.

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CraftyGin Mon 10-Dec-18 19:53:22

So they’d be in school for PE and a few one-off lessons?

MamaVV Mon 10-Dec-18 20:03:02

Not enough info to comment. What are the child’s needs? Will he / she mix with the other pupils at all? Assembly? Break times? Lunch? Using the toilets? Will he / follow the school policies?

fleshmarketclose Mon 10-Dec-18 20:05:44

No they'd be in school full time but taught by tutors for the majority of every day by themselves. For one hour each day the school would provide a TA so that homework could be completed in school. Between the TA and tutors dd would have free choice to do as she pleased.

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BrigitsBigKnickers Mon 10-Dec-18 20:07:13

40k for one child when schools are on their knees providing one teacher for 30 pupils ( prob on a salary of £25k)

Would have thought it would be cheaper to send them to a private school!

How old is this child- I am assuming primary but gifted?

fleshmarketclose Mon 10-Dec-18 20:08:53

Dd has autism, unlikely to move from the room with tutors and no peers as such to speak of. Intending to borrow pupils from the mainstream school next door although being y11 that's likely to be shortlived and can imagine y11 will have little time to spare anyway.

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NotAnotherJaffaCake Mon 10-Dec-18 20:09:52

Almost certainly not, unless there was an EHCP. Head would not be prepared to be responsible for a child’s progress which they had minimal control over, and it would open them up to other parents demanding similar exceptional treatment for their child.

If the LA is prepared to pay for tutors, then they can be done as part of a homeschooling arrangement.

AlexanderHamilton Mon 10-Dec-18 20:11:29

What happened to your other thread OP?

Private school would be cheaper (which ironically is what OP wants.

LA are placing OP’s academically able child in a Special School that doesn’t offer GCSE’s if I remember correctly.

OP wants independent special school school that caters for SEN, necessary therapies & academics I think.

fleshmarketclose Mon 10-Dec-18 20:11:41

Dd is y11 so 15 been out of school for one year since a breakdown in mainstream secondary. £40k is just for tutors there are other costs around £25k, TA for homework, then more for equipment etc. School has an unlimited budget for dd apparently.

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fleshmarketclose Mon 10-Dec-18 20:12:54

Posted here in error really then found a better place didn't want to be rude and leave questions unanswered sorry.

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greathat Mon 10-Dec-18 20:15:02

Never heard of a kid having an unlimited budget. We do have some kids who are taught out of mainstream but with the idea they are integrated as much as possible

RavenWings Mon 10-Dec-18 20:15:44

I can't envisage the borrowing other kids from y11 working all that well tbqh. They have a lot to be getting on with and mightnt be best pleased. Unless they've some needs that could be catered for in the small setting I can't see how it benefits them, and the schools needs to give their needs just as much importance in all this.

Whynotnowbaby Mon 10-Dec-18 20:16:34

It doesn’t sound like a very healthy solution for either child or school it doesn’t sound like the child is doing anything at all with other children which means that the social aspect of school (which can be crucially important to many gifted children) is missed altogether, even if the child does mix with others in certain lessons or at break times they would not have much chance to develop the relationships which are generally established through the shared learning experience. The school is likely to feel a little resentful at so much la money being allotted to one child with no attempt to make the spending of that money more broadly beneficial.

Why does the LA specifically want to sponsor GCSE study for a child who is presumably below the usual age for GCSEs. This would be an unusual step and not something I have ever heard of before, the general idea for g and t pupils is to give them opportunities to obtain a broader and deeper understanding of the work undertaken by their peers in class.

In short I don’t see this arrangement as being beneficial to any of the parties involved and as a pp has said, I’m not sure why it would be carried out in a school rather than home Ed context.

fleshmarketclose Mon 10-Dec-18 20:17:24

It's so that LA don't fund independent specialist which is what I want. There isn't a maintained school place so SS have been told to throw money at it even though provision is likely to be inferior and dd will be isolated.

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AlexanderHamilton Mon 10-Dec-18 20:17:58

The OP said her Dd is in Year 11 whynot

LuluJakey1 Mon 10-Dec-18 20:18:17

Is this a child who:
a) Has an EHCP that states a provision and the LA do not have an appropriate school placement for him/her?
b) Has been Permanently Exculded from a school?
c) Can not manage in a classroom for whatever reason- SEN/ medical/stress- and LA has agreed to this 1:1 to prevent child not being at school.
d) LA has offered a placement in a PRU to and parent unwilling to accept it and school unwilling to have child back in mainstream.

I can't think of why else this would happen. It is awful practice but I have known it happen in the above situations.
LAs are desperate for specialist SEN provision - eg EHCP says child must have access to xxxx provision and LA does nothave any of that provision nor do neighbouring LAs.

Whynotnowbaby Mon 10-Dec-18 20:18:39

Sorry, my answer is irrelevant now further info has been provided!

fleshmarketclose Mon 10-Dec-18 20:20:46

Dd isn't gifted she is academically able predicted 7 to 9 at GCSE and y11 but has missed a year at school because of a breakdown.It is the isolation that worries me most and having autism the opportunity to build social interaction and understanding is hugely important and won't happen.

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ABitCrapper Mon 10-Dec-18 20:24:04

Are you sure that the school cannot cater for a GCSE student? I have small experience of two special schools and both would get the odd able student through GCSEs whilst the majority did life skills and other qualifications. The small staffing ratios enable individual curriculums.

fleshmarketclose Mon 10-Dec-18 20:25:38

Lulu, yes dd has EHCP has had SSEN since age 3. Never been excluded or in a PRU never even received a telling off as behaviour is exceptional. School don't have a school to meet need so this is their solution. Have a place at independent specialist school place offered LA refuse because of cost but once their provision is totalled up there is very little in it.

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ABitCrapper Mon 10-Dec-18 20:26:28

I specifically did liaison in my subject area to assist with this, I might add. There were no tutors provided but I was released (one measly extra "free") once a fortnight to assist.

fleshmarketclose Mon 10-Dec-18 20:28:06

Yes they have no GCSE pathway, most able leave at sixteen at level 5 at SATS level. It's a school for MLD SLD.

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LuluJakey1 Mon 10-Dec-18 20:29:36

Sorry, just seen your update. It happens. Specialist provision of the type you want may well cost more than what they were offering and as she is coming up to Christmas in Y11, they are seeing this as 2 terms of provision.
It is not the ideal solution but given what I know is happening in a number of LAs with children with SEN it does not surprise me. Thete is not the provision available nationally or the money locally.
In the LA where DH works and I used to, they have 20-30 young people with EHCPs that they have no provision for. When this happens a LA put the needs and situation on a website and other LAs/providers offer any appropriate provision they have available and at what price. It is extremely expensive (some independent provision costs £250,000 a year per child). The LA then has to decide what it can provide/afford and meet the needs stated in the EHCP.

fleshmarketclose Mon 10-Dec-18 20:30:35

Well not leave technically move to their sixth form for life skills and maybe entry level qualifications.

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LuluJakey1 Mon 10-Dec-18 20:31:21

I am not sure why your DD can not manage in a mainstream school with 1:1 support, carefully managed.

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