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Advice for climbing up in teaching

(23 Posts)
Yorkiedodah Fri 05-Jan-18 07:30:51

Hi

Wondered if anyone could help.
I've been teaching since 2011 and have had two children in that time. I'm back to work full time in a 3rd school due to a relocation and have started new last term.
Having analysed where I am going and what I want from my career, I'm pitifully still on m3. This is not due to that fact that I'm not a good teacher; I've consistently got goods/outstanding in the old grading system- I just never got through a performance review due to the pregnancies and never knew that I had rights in that time to negotiate my pay. My schools never let me know either- I feel so stupid.

Moving forward, I need a pay rise desperately. I'm a single earner and things are so tight. Would it be crazy to apply for SLT roles which are coming out thick and fast in the local area, which would mean another move of school? I have been a lead teacher in the past but the school I'm currently in I'm only on a temporary contract.
1. I need to start looking for something more permanent.
2. My current school are saying subject to hitting targets I should be moving up to m4.
3. Would applying for leadership roles be crazy without leadership experience- I have some middle leadership experience but would this be sufficient.
4. I do like my current school and would be sad to leave but how do people negotiate to get to say m6?

Any help /advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Yorkie

OP’s posts: |
CaptainHarville Fri 05-Jan-18 09:00:39

With regards to point 4 if you haven't moved up MPS due to maternity leave surely that's discrimination? I would get in touch with your Union about it. You can also apply for enhanced progression so I know of teachers moving onto UPS earlier than 7 years.

It's always worth applying even if you don't have much experience. I know of a teacher on her 3 or 4 year of teaching who is head of department. I know she'll be looking at SLT roles very soon.

Chances are the sort of schools employing less experienced staff to SLT roles can't afford to be picky. So the role is likely to be challenging.

Progression in teaching has very little to do with capability and everything to do with confidence and just giving it a bash.

Good luck!

Yorkiedodah Fri 05-Jan-18 11:14:28

Thanks Captain for the advice!

I'm applying now for the roles I've seen. Fallen into the stump of whether to leave 'how much you earn' space blank or actually put down m3?? Bit of a jump for all the jobs I'm applying for!

OP’s posts: |
CaptainHarville Fri 05-Jan-18 17:00:55

I'd put down M3 but if you get offered a job argue your case before you accept it. I've heard of people accepting jobs with vague promises of extra money that never materialised. You've been teaching 7 years you deserve more than M3.

Lowdoorinthewal1 Fri 05-Jan-18 17:55:42

Not crazy. Not that many people want SLT roles so I would think you have a more than decent chance. Just be sure you really are ready for it. I took my first SLT job before I was ready- and it was a really tricky role with a LOT of complex change management required- and it was a pretty awful experience. I now have an SLT role I actually have the skills for and I love it.

In the salary box I would just put 'MPS'.

PotteringAlong Fri 05-Jan-18 17:58:45

Primary or secondary? I think that makes a difference with reference to middle management experience. If it’s primary I would go for it. I would be less sure at secondary.

NovemberWitch Fri 05-Jan-18 18:19:26

How many actual terms or years teaching have you done in the 7 years with two maternity leaves? I agree that looking for leadership roles/SLT is all about the confidence and energy level you bring to the job, and the extra hours. You can Blarney people into giving you the job and then prove yourself, with salary increases accordingly.

castasp Fri 05-Jan-18 19:22:19

I'm in a similar situation really - although did manage to negotiate UPS1. The way to negotiate is, when they ask if you have any questions, ask about pay, and also, when they say "if you were offered this job would you take it" say "yes, subject to pay and conditions". Then, when you get offered the job, ask again what the pay will be - do not tell them that you are only on MP3 (and just put MPS on your applications). You need to let them them think (without lying) that you are on M6. Try to get them to state their position, if you can't then say you would like M6, and go from there. At this point most schools will just pay it, but if they start negotiating you down, then you have to decide how far down you are willing to take - in your position I wouldn't accept any job below M4.

I'm science though which helps - there's not usually many applicants for jobs, so they have to pay me what I want, or they won't have a teacher. If you are maths, science or MFL, then the school usually needs you more than you need them.

My girls are becoming more and more independent as each year passes, so I really want to build up to a full-time position then get my career back on track towards an SLT role. I think it's a case of watching and waiting for opportunities though.

chocoshopoholic Fri 05-Jan-18 22:13:30

You could also ask your school if they would fund something like the national professional leadership qualifications. If you work in some local authorities this doesn't cost the school anything as the DfE will pay the fees.

millimat Fri 05-Jan-18 23:01:32

At the risk of sounding like the negative one, you also need to think about the extra workload with slt. If you're a single earner with three children, bear in mind that increased pay (if management) = increased work. Having said that, mainscale progression shouldn't change workload.

Lowdoorinthewal1 Sat 06-Jan-18 07:27:39

Whether you can be on SLT with young children depends on the school. At my last school all of SLT either had grown-up children or no children so I found being the one with a toddler, and a DH commuting so not home to help much, very difficult to keep up with. It didn't go down well being the one who always had to bail out at 4pm, especially when they knew I had more to do (there was always more to do).

In my current school most of SLT, including the Head, have pre-school or primary school children- some even work part time <gasp> so it's fine. And it's a better school.

My advice would be don't just apply for any old promoted post- look very carefully at the school, the other members of SLT and the particular requirements of the role. Do the best you can to make sure it's a comfortable fit.

Yorkiedodah Sat 06-Jan-18 19:36:35

Really excellent advice here = thank you all so much.
I have applied and will keep you updated as I find out if anything happens!
Some good advice about the fit of the school - it's really hard to gage this on a tour - I'll have to ask the right questions if I'm lucky enough to be short listed.
In the meantime I intend to work smart and show that I'm worth an enhanced pay progression at my current school

smile Yorkie x

OP’s posts: |
NearlySchoolTimeAgain Sat 06-Jan-18 19:41:57

I got my first TLR & maternity HOD role at MP3 so you definitely don’t need to wait! Have been a permanent HOD since MP4.

NearlySchoolTimeAgain Sat 06-Jan-18 19:43:00

You need to look for a school where face time IN school doesn’t matter so much. I arrive on time and leave relatively promptly - working most of my additional hours at home.

Alphvet Sat 06-Jan-18 20:38:37

No real advice but in a similar position. Worked 9 years minus two may leaves and spent 4 years of that part time. I was prevented moving on to ups due to mat leave and felt frustrated by that but suspect it’s perfectly legal.
I agree with posters who talk about the young children you have. While I fiercely defend my ability to do the job, being in a position where I was tied down to regular meetings after and before school would be stressful for me as I have to juggle childcare with slt dp.

Have you thought about exam marking for extra cash? I recommend highly. I have found a level more lucrative than gcse

MaybeDoctor Sun 07-Jan-18 09:04:35

I would go for progression up the pay spine first rather than taking on a leadership role, as that will simply require negotiation rather than extra workload.

Rainbowcolours1 Sun 07-Jan-18 09:31:08

You should still have progressed on MPS regardless of being on maternity, depending on the number of weeks you worked in a year where you had maternity leave. Moving to UPS is more tricky as you need the evidence but it isn't a given that you can't.
Please don't hide what point you are on, there is no need. You need a strong letter, you need to sell yourself. I would be happy appointing someone on MPS3 if I felt they had the attributes and skills needed.

oldfatandstressed Wed 17-Jan-18 20:07:39

If you have the chance to get MPS 4 go for it before you jump anywhere else. Then try for a role with a TLR which will boost income, prove leadership and allow you to make a bid for UPS. You don't have to be MPS 6 to apply for UPS. Going for an SLT position without experience and with little kids is not ideal. If you are planning on moving, go to a school where the head has little kids, we're generally more understanding about family commitments than heads who have no kids or grown up kids. Good luck!

Smurfy23 Wed 17-Jan-18 21:46:49

Whilst youre looking for a TLR are there anythings in school at the moment that you could lead on? Within your department or area even? Will give you "leadership" experience and something to talk about in interview

Viviennemary Wed 17-Jan-18 21:50:47

Depends on how much experience you have. In your seven years teaching career how many years in the classroom. And have you done some leadership duties. If not I don't think you've much chance of promotion till you get more experience tbh.

fizzicles Sat 20-Jan-18 21:31:43

I've had 3 mat leaves since qualifying in 2010 and have always moved up the payscale so am on UPS1 now. I know this doesn't help you OP, but you really shouldn't have missed out on pay increases just because of maternity leave. That's discriminatory and you have been badly let down by your schools.

Yorkiedodah Sun 21-Jan-18 08:22:29

Thanks for all the messages - some excellent advice and yes definitely feel let down by previous schools.

M4 will be on the cards if I get a good observation in the up and coming weeks.

The SLT role that I applied for, I started getting a feeling of dread about it after applying and now realise that was down to my lack of experience. Didn't even get shortlisted! Phew!
In the meantime, my current school have advertised a permanent role and I am happy there.
Another great local school have also advertised with an earlier closing date and possible interview date than the current school.
Now this is all hypothetical, but if I were to get the job at the good local school - I'm in two minds as to whether I would accept. Would pay and conditions be too much to mention at interview?

In the meantime , I'm putting myself in opprtunities of leadership at my current school and am looking out for CPD opportunities- had no idea that you could just apply to UPS without even being on M6 so lots to think about.

Many Thanks xxx

OP’s posts: |
castasp Sun 21-Jan-18 08:33:10

If you go for interview you MUST ask about pay and conditions - any good Head will expect you to, and will think you are an idiot for accepting a job without finding out how much you will get paid for that job! Same with any conditions you're concerned about e.g.. pension, how part-time will work if it was part-time etc.

I've always asked about pay, even when schools had to stick to pay scales, and it always went in my favour i.e. I negotiated to go higher up the pay scale than I should have been.

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