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How much support do you get?

(24 Posts)
SuperFurrySasquatch Sat 14-Oct-17 22:50:03

As parents we like to blame teachers for all sorts of things that go wrong in the lives of our little darlings but lately I've been shocked by some tales that my particular little darling has come home with and I wonder just how much support the teachers are getting.

In one class (top set) a teacher said that she was giving a particular group one last chance and that if the behaviour continued (low level but persistent silliness and talking) then she would implement a seating plan. The boys piped up with "that won't work", "you can't stop us", "we'll just shout to each other", etc. Now one of those boys happens to be related to us and I know that if his parents knew about the disrespect he showed to that teacher then they would 100% punish him so if school contacted his family there would be some improvement in his behaviour. Personally I feel that parents should be contacted for this kind of disrespect but they are not.

Another incident was when a teacher lost his cool completely and shouted at the class that they were "a bunch of spoilt fucking brats". Although I don't condone his actions, my first question was what had the class been doing to drive him to this. Clearly this teacher was not receiving the support he needed.

Surely if the low level stuff is dealt with then things won't lead to teachers losing control in front of a class.

Lots more tales coming home but I won't bore you with them. I just feel so sorry for those of you trying to do your best for our kids without the support you need.

Cynderella Sun 15-Oct-17 00:52:20

I am in the privileged position of an experienced teacher in a reasonable school. I watch competent and nice people being mashed into the ground by brats - I try to help. Often, new teachers sink. I hate to sound like a ninety year old, but what you report is true - my nice classes are feral with a cover supervisor, supply teacher or anyone they see as weak. New teachers often aren't given a chance. Senior management could stop this, but often are afraid of the work involved or the parents. If you see staff supported, you are looking at a good school.

ohreallyohreallyoh Sun 15-Oct-17 10:43:59

I'm supply and no push over. Have worked in all sorts of schools. I am currently in an awful one (am staying to Xmas cos it's close to home and they paid a premium to keep me). But SLT are shit. There is no support, no one ever sticks their head round my door to see if I'm OK and I don't have access to SIMS so no access to parental details. You have to follow up bad behaviour with parents - even shit parents get fed up of school phone calls and tell their kids to behave or else eventually! I have worked in what should be equally poor schools - highly deprived catchments, high FSM, below average results - but the difference is management and how they tackle poor behaviour. Zero tolerance is the only way to go but it has to be a joint effort and all too often SLT believe it's up to individual staff. The 'if your lessons were sufficiently engaging, they would behave' is the mantra of one local head.

CuckooCuckooClock Sun 15-Oct-17 12:12:02

Very little support.
I have a similar top set, option subject so I would expect them to be slightly interested.

20 of them are lovely and desperate to learn. 10 of them are total arseholes who are doing everything they can to piss me off. I feel so awful for the kids who want to learn because I haven't been able to teach them properly I'm so busy sorting out bad behaviour.

Starting tomorrow those 20 boys will be getting phone calls home. No help from other staff, who are all too busy.

I feel sick knowing I have to face them again this week.

CuckooCuckooClock Sun 15-Oct-17 12:16:29

To add, I think teachers lose control when they're under pressure from above and faced with uncooperative classes they know aren't going to progress enough. Knowing that you're going to get a bollocking from slt.

tinytemper66 Sun 15-Oct-17 15:19:06

I sent emails to SLT and dept Head saying that if they wanted the key marginals in my class to pass English Language, then the brat had to go to another class! It worked! He was removed and the kids can actually learn and hopefully get some revision done for the resit in November!

noblegiraffe Sun 15-Oct-17 16:42:47

Admit that you're struggling with a class and there's a danger that you will be blamed for the poor behaviour and be put on capability procedures.

Schools that don't run centralised detentions and expect teachers to run their own detentions are basically encouraging teachers to minimise sanctions for poor behaviour to avoid increasing their own workload in their own time. Lunchtime and after school detentions run by teachers are unpaid, and when the kids don't turn up, you've then got more work to chase it up.

oceaneblue Sun 15-Oct-17 16:46:17

Well, yes - it is a difficult job.

Swearing at a class in that instance is a major no no, though, and I am surprised your first thought was to assume the class drove the teacher to it.

Balfe Sun 15-Oct-17 18:28:06

Very little, particularly with regards to ASN. These poor children are thrown into classes of 25+ and expected to lose all their needs, more or less.

e.g. One child's educational plan says he needs regular time outside of the classroom, preferably outdoors. I don't have a TA, so how can he go?
SMT are supportive but hands are tied by budget cuts.

Social services are noticeably stretched. We've got several children whose home circumstances leave a lot to be desired. The whole community knows about it. They are bringing their trauma into school and we've referred constantly to SS but nothing gets done.

With regards to discipline, it's bloody hard to keep the rest of the children quiet and calm with all that ^ going on. A lot of behaviour is caught, especially with no visible punishment. And then it goes in a circle...

SuperFurrySasquatch Sun 15-Oct-17 18:35:44

Well I sort of assumed that someone who has worked hard to get the qualifications and then presumably has worked hard to build a career wouldn't sabotage it on a whim just to swear at a class. Also I have heard lots of tales of the poor discipline both of this class and also of the school at large.

I also have suspected for a while that the slt don't give enough support to the teaching staff as I know that the teaching staff are not using the Sims system correctly. I am guessing that the teachers are afraid to let the slt know that they aren't coping. For example, my well behaved, previously problem free child walked out of three lessons within a week. She was called back by the teacher but ignored them. When I went in to school to sort out the issues that had led to this her HoY knew nothing about it and checked the system but there was no reference to the walk outs. Three different teachers had failed to log it!! I can't imagine that those are the only three incidents that aren't logged and there must be a reason behind the teachers not logging incidents.

BoneyBackJefferson Sun 15-Oct-17 19:05:16

I am surprised your first thought was to assume the class drove the teacher to it.

Interesting, my first thought is that the class is 'terroring' him

leccybill Sun 15-Oct-17 19:07:28

Previous poster is correct about centralised detentions. They work.

As I say to my groups, "If you're in detention, I'm in detention. And why should I give up my breaktime? I've done nothing wrong".

I contact parents when disrespect is shown abd I'm always certain they wouldn't do it at home/in any scenario outside of school.
Sadly though, some kids (and their parents) don't care. School is just childcare to them.

heidiwine Sun 15-Oct-17 19:25:28

I retrained to be a teacher and gave it up after less than a year in a school precisely because I got no support. It was horrific. I am fairly mature and know that I was ok - I was a science teacher and I had a (bottom set) year 9 class. I knew that they would learn more from practical science than anything else and really wanted to do practicals with them but struggled with managing a classroom doing practicals. I asked the head of science for help, he said he'd observe me teach a practical, I was very specific about what I was finding difficult. He sat at the back, took notes and when the class was dismissed he came to the front and told me that the lesson would have failed any ofsted inspection and that I had 4 weeks to improve. When I asked how he thought I could or should have done it differently he told me that I shouldn't teach that class practicals. I was then called into a more senior teacher to discuss the lesson. At no point was it acknowledged that this had all started because I had asked for help... that was the beginning of the end for me.
Classroom teachers do an amazing job and are worth their weight in gold.

melonribenia Sun 15-Oct-17 19:29:04

My first thought was that the class drove them to it. I can’t think of another reason why a professional would do it?

MulberryMoon Mon 16-Oct-17 06:41:39

Dd's form tutor is quite good as she doesn't teach the class, but if she hears they are misbehaving in lessons she puts the class on report and deals with the ones who aren't behaving.

WhataHexIgotinto Mon 16-Oct-17 17:06:26

I live in fear of losing my shit one day. I'm a cover supervisor in a nice school but some of the behaviour is shameful. I'm pretty good with behaviour management so can hold the class together well, but the other cover is really struggling just now. They have no respect for her a I feel she gets no support or back up from SLT. I'm as tough as old boots but sometimes I really want to jack it in.

Acopyofacopy Mon 16-Oct-17 17:14:26

One core subject in my school is notorious for its bad behaviour (think pupils doing piggy back races in class). As a consequence teacher turnover is ridiculous, one new colleague will not be returning after half term.

Does anything change? No. There is apparently nothing wrong, the teachers just couldn’t hack it. hmm

WhataHexIgotinto Mon 16-Oct-17 17:24:59

My own opinion and it is just my own thoughts on this, is that the kids know that teachers and schools have very little power. They have it all. How many times has someone said 'you can't do anything' or 'my mum says she'll sue, you're just a teacher's etc etc. Some parents have no respect for the education of their children or the people who teach them, so neither do their kids.

leccybill Mon 16-Oct-17 19:06:49

I agree with WhataHex.

Changerofname987654321 Mon 16-Oct-17 20:18:12

Ringing parents can be time consuming. I teach 15 classes and as I only work 3 days a week I get 3 hours of PPA a fortnight. I need this time for photocopy. All marking and lessons planning I do at home after my child has gone to bed. It is impossible to contact many parents during the day so often contacting parents is at the end of an impossibily long to do list.

hmyh23 Mon 16-Oct-17 21:17:29

None from anyone higher up than head of department. In our department we just do our own thing in terms of isolating kids, moving them around different classes etc. When we ask for support from further up, it's just put back on us, so now we don't bother.

Changerofname987654321 Mon 16-Oct-17 21:50:12

On all issues our SLT say the staff need to support SLT.

ohreallyohreallyoh Mon 16-Oct-17 22:02:33

I agree change that contacting parents is time consuming and difficult. In my experience, however, it works. The number of times I've had 'Miss, I've been good all week so will you phone my dad so I can get my Xbox back' (or a variation of) shows that. Parents get embarrassed and fed up so act. But I do agree, some parents have no respect so it's pointless. I am working with a right 'I'll get you done' madam at he moment but she did go quiet when I pointed out that I was quite sure she had been well brought up and that no parent of a well brought up child would be happy to hear they had been throwing paper around a classroom and wasting learning time'. She shut up. I suspect her behaviour is rarely challenged. And so we are full circle. Where is SLT?

Changerofname987654321 Tue 17-Oct-17 06:53:53

ohreallyohreallyoh I agree that it can be very effective but at the moment with lots of other new stuff I physically don’t have time to do. The last few phone calls have also been meet with I always support but the school BUT this is not my child’s fault because...and then some grasping reason. Unfortunately the majority of students in our school now nolonger care about phone calls Home. I have seen a dramatic chance in this in only 8 years of teaching.

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