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Threshold for permanent exclusion.

(66 Posts)
whatthehell33 Sun 18-Jun-17 21:03:08

Hi! Related to another thread I have on a school based issue. We're trying to work out the best thing to do and just wondered if any teachers could help by telling us what sort of behaviour sees children permanently excluded? I understand it's rare and the threshold's very high these days. What makes a school say enough is enough? Thanks!

TheSolitaryBoojum Sun 18-Jun-17 21:21:43

Only two I've come across were assault with a weapon they'd brought to school and torching a teacher's car with threats to do more next time. Both primary. Both the conclusion of a very long and exciting series of encounters and events. If the behaviour is linked to a disability or a SN not being met, that's a different scenario. Is the child yours?
If not, the school will not disclose what they are planning to do.

BoneyBackJefferson Sun 18-Jun-17 21:33:41

All the Permanent exclusions that I know of are a results of many incidents and temp exclusions. Although a couple may have been serious enough by themselves, but I couldn't say for sure.

whatsleep Sun 18-Jun-17 21:43:37

I don't have anything useful to add but am posting here to mark my place as I am also curious about the threshold.

MaisyPops Sun 18-Jun-17 21:49:46

In my experience it's after a range of shorter exclusions, range of managed moves, time at the PRU, relevant referrals for mental health, early help, social services (if relevant to the situation) and even part time timetables with some provision being off site.
After all of that then a permanent one can be done.

Some incidents are so serious that it could trigger it automatically but my guess would be weapons or drugs for something like that.

QueenieGoldstein Sun 18-Jun-17 21:49:55

Only permanent exclusion I have seen in school was a pupil (Year 7) holding a teacher and class hostage with a weapon then trying to jump out of a second storey window (window didn't open enough) when they were confronted by the Head.

Pupil had been a managed move who behaved for a term before this happened so not sure I felt that meant the process could be sped up.

Idontmeanto Sun 18-Jun-17 21:50:54

Selling drugs combined with awareness from local press was swiftly dealt with.

ASauvingnonADay Sun 18-Jun-17 21:55:29

'A decision to permanently exclude a pupil should only be taken:
•In response to a serious breach, or persistent breaches, of the school's behaviour policy; and
•Where a pupil’s behaviour means that allowing the pupil to remain in school would seriously harm the education or welfare of the pupil or others in the school'

So... either persistent disruptive behaviour, were interventions and support have proved ineffective, or following a serious incident such as assault on a teacher, drugs or weapons. 


UniversallyUnchallenged Sun 18-Jun-17 22:01:07

These seem very extreme, it can results from things already mentioned. Selling class a drugs, violence, sexual assault, but also continual, persistent refusal of school rules (a combination of low level threatening behavior, swearing, defiance, refusal to cooperate, bullying, trying to intimidate), it takes a lot of evidence and a process of actively trying to change behavior. However a good rule of 'is it effecting the long term school experience of other kids?' Trying to keep all kids in main stream isn't sound. Some kids need others options, help, support and structures. Round pegs and square holes.

ASauvingnonADay Sun 18-Jun-17 22:02:48

Just to add - the decision is taken looking at the whole picture. SEN is taken into account (although this doesn't mean a child with SEN couldn't be PEX'd). It's also last resort - it's very expensive to PEX a child.

MatchsticksForMyEyes Sun 18-Jun-17 22:03:23

This year we've excluded three permanently for taking drugs on the premises.

DanyellasDonkey Sun 18-Jun-17 22:14:27

I'd love to know how schools exclude at all, let alone permanently.

Our beloved LA has decided it wants to have zero exclusions so kids can basically do and say what they want and there are no consequences. Cue very disillusioned staff wanting to leave in droves,

whatthehell33 Sun 18-Jun-17 22:24:04

Wow Donkey that's terrifying! For the staff and the kids in the schools. I hope that gets challenged.
Thanks for your input everybody!

AuntieStella Mon 19-Jun-17 07:18:09

Not a teacher, but parent of teens do I've seen a fair amount of practice in secondaries.

The only time I've been aware of someone being permananently excluded based in a single incident was for dealing drugs on the premises..

I am less sure of the circumstances of the other two I am aware of, but I know it involved repeated bad behaviour including theft (school was very discreet, btw, but other pupils do get to know at least some of what is going on)

SnugglySnerd Mon 19-Jun-17 07:24:56

I have a pastoral role in a secondary school. I have been involved with a number of permanent exclusions. Only one that I can remember was because of a one-off incident (drugs) the rest have all been after numerous incidents, shorter exclusions and interventions.
At the final exclusion meeting we have to have reams of evidence to show and explain to the LA so it's not something we can do without proving that we've exhausted every other possibility.

OhTheRoses Mon 19-Jun-17 07:41:40

After two years at a cofe girls school with an exceptional reputation and a newish head we removed our dd because the behaviour of a minority was not being dealt with. There were two sets of expectations, depending on background.

In the first two years there was constant disruption and also: swearing at staff and flouncinf out of lessons, assault, theft, intimidation and a lot of low level bullying. There was a fixed term exclusion after a girl was beaten up. The head's constant refrain "they are underprivileged and need support and flexible boundaries".

Our dd wasn't the only girl to leave. All those who left were well behaved and high performing.

The five who couldn't behave were eventually permanently excluded about six weeks before GCSE s. The head left the same year after seven years at the school during whichbstandards and exam results declined year on year.

There was never any thought for the impact on other girls and the governors were chums who made excuses and for too long stood behind the head.

BertrandRussell Mon 19-Jun-17 07:44:31

"Our beloved LA has decided it wants to have zero exclusions so kids can basically do and say what they want and there are no consequences.

Really? No managed moves or PRU referrals?

Doublejeopardy Mon 19-Jun-17 08:04:08

Check out your school exclusion and behaviour policies they will explain what and why exclusions can occur. It's these policies the governing body turn to to check the exclusion is fair (they have to sit on the expulsion panel)

echt Mon 19-Jun-17 08:19:11

Back in the very early 80s, a student was permanently excluded for telling me to fuck off.

Those were the days.

leccybill Mon 19-Jun-17 08:23:02

I've known of perm exclusions for dealing drugs on the premises and bringing a samurai-type sword into school.

OhTheRoses Mon 19-Jun-17 08:49:48

The system has become bloody ridiculous. It helps nobody. Not the staff, not the children, and might be badly behaved for whatever reason they are badly behaved.

whatthehell33 Mon 19-Jun-17 10:15:44

Echt grin probably wouldn't even be punished now.
Scary isn't it?

Lichfield Mon 19-Jun-17 17:08:57

My LA has also hammered down on exclusions. It likes to show the stats when discussing behaviour 'Look, 80% fewer exclusions!' while merrily ignoring the fact that the actual reasons for exclusion are still there.

Iamastonished Mon 19-Jun-17 17:12:53

At DD's school the only students who have been excluded in recent years were dealing drugs.

elephantoverthehill Mon 19-Jun-17 20:15:04

Three permanent exclusions this year for assaults on members of staff but loads of temporary exclusions for all 3 including smoking on site, assaults on other students etc. We used to have a very good track record, as a school, for a lack permanent exclusions.

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