Can't get AHT role : secondary schools

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

Is anyone else finding it impossible to break into SLT in secondary schools?

I have been applying for AHT roles for the best part of 10 years now and have been shortlisted three times. I think I have applied for 40+ jobs and it is destroying my self esteem, to be honest.

There is probably a bit of a backplot about my current school not being great at developing middle to lower senior leaders sufficiently - so we have no extended SLT or associates for example. All the stuff that could have measurable 'impact' which seems to be what applications want is done by SLT.

I was a head of year (huge school so that is in charge of 15 staff and 400 kids) for 14 years. I have led small departments (successfully); I am a much valued commodity as I teach a core subject. I now lead the work of our National Support School. I am making this sound more important than it is because that's what I do in applications, obviously! I haven't worked in more than one school (because I can't get a job!) but I am a governor at another school and do now work in school to school support. I just don't get it. I have part NPQH equivalent, safeguarding lead training and a 2:1 from a RG university. All this should help?

I now see whippersnappers coming up form below me with about 8-10 years teaching experience and think I am now too old..

It sounds arrogant but I always thought I would lead a school; they need school leaders, after all! It makes me desperately sad. And makes me wish I had never gone into teaching at all.

I keep being told 30 -40 people are applying for assistant head posts... I do ask for feedback. It's generally a bit nebulous but I get told I wasn't 'quite right for their role' or they had people already doing a similar job, or I get told I don't sell myself enough .

Any empathy or advice gratefully received!

I have cast my net wider in the last two years but I do have a DH who is not very domestic and two DSs at secondary school so a key age - not keen for them to experience upheaval so am not able or prepared to have a longer commute than about 40 minutes or to move house - so my options have become more limited. One of the few interviews I had was for a pastoral role in the Lake District (300 miles away) but, after some soul searching, I didn't go. Bad mistake.

[YoniFucker]

If the roles aren't there at your current school, and new schools aren't shortlisting you for AHT roles, would you consider a side ways step to a different school where there might be more possibilities for promotion?

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

I have thought about this , yes - but I really don't want to be a head of faculty. I'm getting a bit long in the tooth to spend another few years doing something I don't want to do. I'd probably earn the same or a bit less money for no perks and possibly more teaching than I do now... I'm not sure if it will pay off!

I'm a bit spoilt : the school I am in is outstanding so the grass can often seem greener but then isn't. I did withdraw from an interview last year because I didn't feel comfortable. I think I've become institutionalised.

I have considered a change of phase but that hasn't worked either, even when the pay is a bit less!

So frustrating!

But maybe you are right I don't think I'd be a good head of English though in the current climate

[SuperPug]

I think that in some schools, they prefer to promote younger people (in some cases), because they can be paid on the first or second point of a SLT pay scale. The range for this seems to be huge. It looks like you can start someone on an SLT salary which is equivalent to a HOD pay in another school.

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

I think any SLT scale you start at the bottom of the range they advertise. The jobs that I am applying for, the bottom of the scale is either the same as what I am paid now or a little bit more. there are one or two I have applied for where the start pay has been a little less. they aren't allowed to consider that in shortlisting anyway . But I don't think pay is the issue.

[SuperPug]

Sorry OP, different in my current school. Having looked at pay scales for different schools it does seem to vary.

[rollonthesummer]

I have part NPQH equivalent

Can you clarify what that means? Did you only do some of the course? Or a different course? I didn't know there were equivalents.

I'd probably earn the same or a bit less money for no perks

What perks are you looking for?

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

No worries : I know pay does affect things as a lot of schools don't bother to advertise externally, preferring to internally promote as they can save a bit of money this way.

The jobs in the TES advertise points on the leadership scale so they can't stray from these. Most of the AHT ones for secondary start at 11 or 12.

But , yes - I do think it's a young man's world in teaching!

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

Morning summer

There are equivalents : my local Teaching School partnership does a leadership pathways thing. The first - very expensive for the school!- stage of this is badged as comprising part of an NPQH equivalent. I know it's vague but that's what they say it is. I have to keep writing it on forms! All of their leadership pathways are crap have different names.

I sued the term 'perks' loosely. At the moment , I have no form class and teach 35 out of 50 lessons (as a legacy of a previous role as head of year . If I moved 'sideways' to another school, I might well end up with a heavier timetable, for example. I am not sure how I feel about that.
I certainly didn't mean financial ones1

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

Sorry 'used' ! Not sued..

[FritzDonovan]

Do you think you come across as a bit inflexible in interviews? You seem (from what you have said here) to have a pretty good role at the moment and don't want to compromise on what you already have. I expect that those young whipper-snappers are more willing and able to agree to anything without preset ideas of what they will/won't want to do. And they may be working their way up the school as a known quantity.

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

I doubt it Fritz as I don't get any interviews as Is aid. I am expressing my reservations on MN : I wouldn't actually say those out loud... The young whippersnappers I refer to would get exactly the same pay and time allocation as me, so there wouldn't be any negotiation : the only dealbreaker for me would be if I hated something about the school when I got to interview, could see I wouldn't get on with the head, or of they asked me to do the timetable or calendar. A lovely head of another school - very much off the record - did say he had noticed that young males are easier to shortlist because they sell themselves better. And this is certainly true of the people who I trained with in terms of career progression.

I am usually up against external candidates in the three interviews I have had. I have had two internal interviews which went to , on one occasion someone internal (who has now left) and in the other case, an external candidate. The three interviews I have had were interesting, as in one case it was a school which hadn't attracted a wide field : not sure what as it was an 'outstanding' rated school. So, I do get shortlisted when there is a smaller field - I can't stand out against 30 other people , it seems. I do have a genuine fear that ageism is at play.

I am glad my role sounds good at the moment , That must mean I've done a good job of selling it on here because it isn't. I get a good time allocation but that is about it (and it's a legacy from the previous role as I said). I don't enjoy it as it has virtually no direct contact with adults 9and no one to line manage) and none at all with parents and students, other than from my own teaching. My head saw it as a stop gap stepping stone and it hasn't proved advantageous thus far,which is a shame.

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

I also wanted to add the inflexibilty is more fear than inflexibility about what I would lose in a sideways move, not an upwards one, because a few people have suggested that might be an option.

I only see benefits for me in an upwards move unless they make me do the timetable

[Darkblueskies]

Could you get more qualifications? Like the NPQH or an MA? Do you think that would help? Do you need to take on some sort of initiative to develop in your school? As you've said, a lot of that goes to SLT.

I'm quite a way below you- head of pastoral but very recently, so I don't know what you need for AHT. I have noticed though, that a lot of AHT roles go internally. In my area, anyway.

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

Head of pastoral is more than I ever got. Lucky you! I wills ay , I think it is harder to egt promoted to AHT via the pastoral route. That I have definitely noticed. Most fo the AH/ DH pastoral roles ar internal. The externally advertised ones ar often T and L focused, so I am not as skileed as other cnadidates, perhaps. Hence my new role, allegedly!

My school is really really tightening the belt on all CPD ( I wasn't allowed out on a free exam board course this year!). They see me as having had my leadership training so wouldn't fund more : it's as much to do with time out of school as cost - or both things combined.
That's one of the reasons I became a governor : to strengthen my application and experience of other phases and finances etc.

I am just older than the generation who automatically did MAs and none of the person specs actually cite a need for this.

Ironically, as a governor, I have just been involved in headship shortlisting. Many of the applicants has really rubbish qualifications right the way back to school years (although many did have NPQH ) Hardly any had MAs. There were six applicants! Maybe I should skip all the other stages!!

[Darkblueskies]

Well there does seem to be a shortage of heads!
It's really tough knowing there's a direction you want to go in and not being able to do so. A friend of mine applied for hardships for 15 years until she got one. She went to so many interviews and wrote so many applications. It was a real confidence knock.

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

Thanks darkblue - that's exactly how I feel .

And it does affect my morale and general outlook, I have to say, and makes me feel negative about/in my current workplace, partly because of frustration that I know I could do the job some are doing as well as them. I don't resent them their roles ; I can just see that I would be able to do what they do too.

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

I would like to add that I don't have all these typos in my job applications!!

I am soooooo bored of filling in forms though...

[FritzDonovan]

Actually OP, I was assuming it was difficult to stand out in such a large group of applications (some of which are bound to be younger/have a wider experience of different settings) and was asking about the three interviews you did say you were short-listed for. These are where I would assume you would get useful feedback.
It's not just pay and time allocation that matter though, is it? It's ideas for taking the school forward, dealing with existing problems (funding?) and availability and enthusiasm for all those little extra curricular things....can you sell yourself in these areas?

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

Yes, I do try- honest! (once I was told my application as too long as a result)

One of the jobs I wen t for interview for was weird. I never got feedback : in fact they never officially told me I didn't get the job. Lucky escape there! The others did give good feedback and I am all prepped to take that on board should I ever get another interview.

[SuperPug]

Just read your last post - I've also had negative interview experiences and felt like not getting the job was a lucky escape.
Would you be willing to change from state to independent? I'm assuming you're in state due to the very large year group you mentioned.
Good Luck and it is demoralising when you know you're a good candidate and they seem to crying out to retain teachers.
On TES, I've noticed that some jobs seem to be constantly readvertised for Middle Management and SLT.

[CountryCaterpillar]

I wonder if they're wary of appointing someone who has only taught in one school?

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

I think so to both country and pug

I have applied to independent schools ( I really have stopped being fussy at all). Been rejected form those too : presumably because they candidates from other private schools, I guess. It's a shame as I think private schools are still able to be genuinely pastoral and I would like that.

I think they do want people who have taught in a few schools, yes. I can't get out of the one I am in so that's a double edged sword!

That's why I have become a governor and my current role involves supporting other schools, so I have emphasised that.

I keep seeing SLT roles readvertised too - happily none I have ever applied for! but I keep a special eye out for those, must admit.

[TheSnowFairy]

I'm applying for a non teaching SLT role this week. I'm an internal candidate but think one of our Heads of a teaching dept is going for it too.

It's horrible being internal, everyone at my place knows everything although am hoping I already do enough to get it. If not, no idea what I'll do. Am mid 40's and cba to travel too far etc.

Op, like you, I am happy at the school I'm at so no reason to move other than upwards!

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

Hi Snow - Good Luck!

What's a non teaching SLT role?

[ILikeBeansWithKetchup]

I am currently in the midst of applying for a lecturer role. That application was interesting as there was a huge person spec and only 4000 characters to go through it, providing examples...

They sure do like to make it hard.

There's also a head of English : even though I said no tot hat suggestion , this one pays v well. But it's an hour away. I suppose I cold view it as a short term stepping stone. My friend who works ina private school says her school has had to advertise three times for a head of English and it's a well known school.

It's a funny old world.