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Is there an answer other than detentions?

(13 Posts)
armpitz Thu 23-Mar-17 08:33:01

Pondering this.

As far as I can see detention is the only 'real' sanction that all teachers can use but I just don't think it works. All you end up with is a resentful stroppy kid who is then resentful and stroppy for the next lesson (and don't even start me off on that great habit some teachers have of using their free to track said child down and inform him he has a detention at the start of YOUR lesson so then you have an outraged, arms flung out, mouth a wide O of disbelief complaining and angry in your lesson hmm)

I can't think of anything though. Just calling parents which doesn't always work.

Hate detentions though. Punishment for us not the kids!

leccybill Thu 23-Mar-17 09:35:47

I don't like them either as effectively I'm in detention too.
But my place does same-day detentions and they do seem to work for a lot of kids. Lots of the compliant, well-behaved kids are scared of the mere idea of getting a detention so they make sure homework comes in on time, equipment is present etc.
Some of the borderline kids do a couple of detentions, realise it's boring sitting in silence for half an hour after school and then improve their ways.

And I do sometimes use the last 5 mins of my PPA to collect a pupil who may be likely to abscond detention!

Euphemia Thu 23-Mar-17 17:17:15

I keep seeing on FB that mindfulness/yoga is the answer.

I'd love to try it in our school. I bet calming the children down would affect their behaviour.

We're primary so no detention, and few real sanctions if parents won't back us up.

armpitz Thu 23-Mar-17 17:40:04

I suppose the problem is detentions couple up as too many things. Forgot your pen - detention. Twatted the kid next to you - detention. It gets a bit meaningless!

nursebickypegs Thu 23-Mar-17 17:45:20

Back when I was at school, we had red slips and gold slips. 1 red slip was fine, 2 was a warning to parents and 3 meant your house lost 10 gold slips. Gold slips were "treats" like extra playtime etc so it's the classic "you're letting yourself and everyone down" scenario.

leonardthelemming Thu 23-Mar-17 18:22:30

Back when I was at school, we had red slips and gold slips. 1 red slip was fine, 2 was a warning to parents and 3 meant your house lost 10 gold slips. Gold slips were "treats" like extra playtime etc so it's the classic "you're letting yourself and everyone down" scenario.

^This.

And it still happens. At the last two schools I worked at before I retired (girls' independent), the Deputy Head might hold a detention session once every 3 weeks or so, but only if necessary...

We had a system of house points and order marks. House points for good work, obviously, but geared mainly towards the younger girls. I think Y10 and up were a bit embarrassed if they got one!

Order marks came in two varieties - work (for late homework, etc.) and conduct. It was very rare to give a conduct order mark. During house meetings, the total number of order marks during that week was read out. No names, of course, but any girl who had got an order mark knew she was letting her house down, because order marks cancelled out housepoints.

Here's an example of something which might have warranted a conduct order mark but didn't. A mobile phone went off in my class. I just looked at the girl. (So did everyone else.) She went pink, rummaged in her bag to turn it off, and apologised both profusely and genuinely. No other punishment seemed necessary.

Order marks were handed to the form tutor to be passed up the chain. This involved a bit of extra work for the form tutor. I once told my Y9 form group that if any of them dared to get an order mark I would give them another as punishment for the extra workload. There were very few order marks that year!

But the big question is, why the difference? Is it because independent schools have more involved parents who are paying extra, or because senior management insists on high standards, or perhaps because such schools tend to be smaller (we had 400, including sixth-form) so most teachers know most girls by name, even if they don't teach them.

I really don't know.

leccybill Thu 23-Mar-17 20:01:52

Re: independent schools

Smaller numbers so easier to keep control
Selectiveness (by exam?)
Stricter parents who are more invested (in all senses) in their child's education
Easier to exclude
No Ofsted tracking number of suspensions/exclusions

I really don't think that SLT in independent schools insist on higher standards than those in state schools.

Rosieposy4 Thu 23-Mar-17 21:16:43

And very few independent schools have the really damaged kids.
I teach plenty who don't give a fuck about letting anyone else down, for a variety of reasons, ( some very justifiable bad behaviour, some not)
You can also exclude/expel as wished. State sector cannot, especially those that have left LA control as much reduced access to pru etc so we have to keep far more kids than in the past, even when they have been proven to be doing drugs during the school day, thieving and bullying.

80schild Thu 23-Mar-17 21:23:29

Mindfulness and yoga aren't actually evidence based - they are just crazes. I'm not convinced there are any meaningful sanctions bar the streey cleaner talk (and even that will only work if the kid cares about their life chances).

leccybill Thu 23-Mar-17 22:17:44

I think mindfulness is a craze too. I think we'll be laughing over it in a couple of years.

elephantoverthehill Thu 23-Mar-17 22:30:17

I taught the really most badly behaved y9 students this afternoon. I have issued school detentions for a few. This is taken up by the school and I, as a classroom teacher do not have to chase their attendance at the detention. I have also requested that one student is put into 'isolation' tomorrow. Unless your SLT back you up you as a classroom teacher have no other option other than phoning the parent. I was taught yoga at primary school in the 70's and it has been a life lesson.

MrsT2007 Thu 23-Mar-17 22:58:54

Centralised detentions work at our place, and really crystal clear system. Warn, mark, detention, removal by SMT (& a day in isolation as result)

Isolation is shitty old hut in corner of school away from everyone. Not even allowed out at break. There's a loo down there and that is it. Take water, break snacks ordered in advance and taken to them.

That works as kids have no 'currency' in being hard cases as nobody sees them and they can't show off about it. It's dull as shit and they hate it.

armpitz Fri 24-Mar-17 08:23:36

I think isolation works for the 'no I am NOT putting my phone away' 'oh go and fuck off' stuff.

I suppose I'm wondering more about the not done homework (I hate homework actually but anyway) and not completing work in class.

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