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Go, Nicky, go...

(48 Posts)
rollonthesummer Sun 01-Feb-15 11:40:36



tabulahrasa Sun 01-Feb-15 11:52:01

I think it's a great idea...I mean, what's not to like? There's a plan and targets so presumably they just sink down into the children by some sort of osmosis and wayhay, the war on illiteracy is won.

Oh, unless it's an actual war? Maybe the plan is to take troops in and get rid of children who don't meet the targets. I mean I can see that that would work unlike just setting targets, but, it does seem a bit harsh.

noblegiraffe Sun 01-Feb-15 11:53:10

I'm eagerly awaiting the results of the workload survey. I'm sure she said she would be making announcements this January that would reduce our workload.

sassytheFIRST Sun 01-Feb-15 11:54:25

She did say that, noble. And yet, here we are in feb... And no announcement. What a surprise!

noblegiraffe Sun 01-Feb-15 11:57:21

"We are planning to publish an action plan in the new year – and by new year, I mean January. We will give an update to everybody as to where the conclusions are leading."

Broken promises already Nicky?

BatmanLovesBakedBeans Sun 01-Feb-15 11:59:34

This is brilliant! I never thought of teaching the times tables to my class before - amazing.

TheTroubleWithAngels Sun 01-Feb-15 12:06:20

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mmm1701 Sun 01-Feb-15 12:13:27

Surely it's a good thing for all dcs to know their tables by the time they leave junior school. What's the issue?
And yes, correct grammar, spelling and punctuation. I fully support it. Too many dcs are leaving primary without a grasp of the fundamental rules of English.
What's the problem? She'll get my vote as would Gove.

TheTroubleWithAngels Sun 01-Feb-15 12:20:33

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PenelopePitstops Sun 01-Feb-15 13:12:47

I second the troublewith's post.

Gove etc all went to schools where they were in the top sets or the schools were selective. They have no idea of the difficulties faced by children with SEN.

rollonthesummer Sun 01-Feb-15 14:42:33

*Surely it's a good thing for all dcs to know their tables by the time they leave junior school. What's the issue?
And yes, correct grammar, spelling and punctuation. I fully support it. Too many dcs are leaving primary without a grasp of the fundamental rules of English.
What's the problem? She'll get my vote as would Gove.*

55% of my school have EAL and about the same have SEN. Going by what you've said-our management would be sacked and we'd be another forced academy statistic where unqualified teachers are welcome, because not 100% of our children would pass this test. You think this will help who and how?

Think about what you're saying.

rollonthesummer Sun 01-Feb-15 14:47:55

There were 700 comments on that bbc story this morning-now, there's over 1400! Obviously it's something people feel very strongly about.

CharlesRyder Sun 01-Feb-15 16:35:08

mmm1701 If you've got global development delay, ASC with learning difficulties etc and you don't really understand the concept of combining two groups, never mind more, is it a good use of your time to learn to bark tables?

Wolfiefan Sun 01-Feb-15 16:38:58

You do understand though that if EVERY student doesn't achieve top A level grades at 14 it is down to laziness on the part of students and teachers.
Another reason I'm glad I left teaching.

padkin Sun 01-Feb-15 16:46:23

I'm all for having high expectations, but for some Primary schools, including the one I teach in, the 100% label simply sets us up to fail, regardless of how hard teachers work, or how strong their teaching is. Our current Y5, for example, has 3 children with statements, who a few years ago would have been in a Special School setting, before those were mainly closed, approx 50% with dyslexic spectrum processing difficulties and poor communication skills, a couple who are waiting for ASD diagnoses, 80% on free school meals, approx 40% in families known to Social Services for various reasons, very little home support (drug/alcohol issues prevalent, illiteracy among parents common, many in single mum families with dad in prison) and 3 new arrivals from countries where they have had no schooling so far, seen awful atrocities and speak no English. Most year groups are similar.

We work incredibly hard to support and nurture children, and to raise attainment. Our SATS results are just above floor targets, which shows huge value added (recognised in the 'good' we recently got from Ofsted) and I am immensely proud to work with a hugely dedicated and experienced teaching staff, but I can categorically tell you now that we will never get 100% in any maths, grammar or reading tests. And bringing in support from the leafy middle class Outstanding schools in our area is not going to help. I doubt they have half the expertise we do in teaching in challenging circumstances.

So we fail. I despair.

Wolfiefan Sun 01-Feb-15 16:51:18

"Support and nurture"
Teachers like you are winners not failures as far as I (and every child you teach).
The government believes education is all about churning out students who have met the targets they prescribe. It is not about children and what is best for them.

Icantfindaname Sun 01-Feb-15 17:05:11

My DD has SEN. She is in Y1 and has a statement. The school are particularly concerned about her abilities in Maths. She is really struggling to understand the concepts.

My DD is a child who has a right to be supported by the state education system, as does every child within the UK.

I would be very surprised if she is able to achieve all this by the time she is 11.

If this comes in to force then my DD will not be receiving the education she needs and deserves and which will help her in her adult life. School will have to spend time teaching something which for her in pointless. And when school 'fail' as they inevitably will then the too will be judged as failing.

When I hear politicians talk like this I want to shout 'What about my daughter'? They should be working for her too. But where is she in all this?

It honestly makes me want to weep with frustration and anger.

Why can they not understand that not all children are high achievers. Some are middling and some are low. And they all deserve an education that works for them.

QuickQuickSloe Sun 01-Feb-15 17:10:42

I have just left a year six post. The vast majority of children in my class were fluent in their times tables. I had two children with learning difficulties who were still having trouble with 7,8 and 12. They had extra support everyday with an LSA, they had extra in class support from me and their parents practised every night with them. They made incredible progress but I am willing to bet that by the end of July they will still not be fluent in these tables.

Some children just can't do it by the end of year six.

rollonthesummer Sun 01-Feb-15 18:07:53

Not much is happening here either, Nicky-is it!?

It's February now!

Ohmygrood Sun 01-Feb-15 18:22:34

Reducing teachers workload isn't a vote winner though.
And anyway, everyone knows how lazy they must be if they can't get round to teaching times table in primary schools.

rollonthesummer Sun 01-Feb-15 18:55:36

Who's going to volunteer to teach bottom set Y6 now!?

Thistledew Sun 01-Feb-15 19:11:34

What on earth is the point of learning times tables? I left primary school not knowing all my times tables, despite going to a fantastic, inspiring and nurturing school. I still don't know my tables and I am also an atrocious speller. This is because I have (mild) dyslexia. I now work in what is widely considered to be one of the most academically rigorous professions and am doing very well. I will be forever grateful that my school decided to focus on teaching is science and English to a level that I did not face again until about the end of year 8 in secondary school, rather than spending hours drilling me in rote learning that would not have stuck anyway.

Inasimilarboat Sun 01-Feb-15 19:26:44

I'm a secondary maths teacher and it would be marvellous if all my students came up from primary knowing their tables. However it's a completely unrealistic expectation
Many of the children I teach will never know them by the end of year 11- they just don't have the ability to grasp them!

However these children thrive in other areas. Some have brilliant spatial awareness, some are fantastic artists, wonderful musicians, beautiful writers or fantastic friends.

There is so much more to school than learning tables. Why can't goverment see the wonderful things schools are doing instead of yet again making the General pubic believe we are failing?

Some of my children attend school every day leaving behind situations of DV, I've taught teenagers who are living on the streets, who are drug or alcohol dependent, who have lost their parents or are going through immense personal tragedies- the fact they survive secondary school is a miracle! Who cares about their times tables, some days feeding, clothing and caring for them is the most important thing.

All of my students go on to further education or training, and many come back to our school for support when things go wrong because they feel safe there. Not because I taught them their tables, but because I care.

Justtoobad Sun 01-Feb-15 20:14:52

If we were to do a survey of adults on their times table knowledge, I do believe it would not be 100%.
And the world + government keeps turning.

ANewMein2015 Sun 01-Feb-15 20:31:08

I did A level Maths and considered maths for uni - I still get 7*8 and 8*8 muddled up.... I dont think they focussed on tables when I was at school and I still got to a Very Good Uni.

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