Tristram wants private school teachers to help state schools

[rollonthesummer]

Quote from the guardian

These will require them to provide qualified teachers in specialist subjects to state schools, share expertise to help state school students get into top universities

Why assume that private school teachers will be any help to state school teachers?!

The implication there is that we're not doing a terribly good job, but a few weeks with Mr and Mrs private school teacher and everything's sorted?!

[Stopmithering]

The bloke hasn't got a clue.
Quite a few of my colleagues (state school) have got jobs in the private sector over the years. They tell me that, if anything their teaching has stalled as private schools don't have as much of a drive towards expanding teaching and learning methodology.
This isn't to say they aren't still good teachers, just that they aren't better simply because they work in private schools.
It's again, a massive simplification of the situation and presumes, wrongly, that private school results are purely down to the teaching.
But Tristram knows that.
Why he's going down this route, God only knows.

[Nicename]

Are they cloning teachers now? So if the assumption is that private school teachers are in some way better, why don't they just cough up for more/ better training?

[Wolfiefan]

They just don't get it do they?
Better schools need lower class sizes, teachers that aren't constantly bombarded by government imposing change, senior managers who don't implement a new policy every few seconds, resources and supportive parents. Etc etc.
They need to look at what these top performing schools have that inner city academies don't.
Quality requires cash!

[Wolfiefan]

Grrrrrr!!!!!!

[grendel]

This is ridiculous.
Hasn't anyone in govt yet figured out the reason that private schools tend to do well is largely down to small class sizes, excellent facilities, quite a lot of selection (of one kind or another) and generally involved and motivated parents?
It's not due to the fact that all their teachers are somehow magic, or particularly amazing.

[CharlesRyder]

My DH is out of the classroom now but when he was a HoD in a N London Independent his department budget, excluding capital spends and staff training was £45k - and he thought that was a bit stingy.

I know it's not all about money, but if you dropped my DH into a state school to 'help' he might lack experience in making do!!

[rollonthesummer]

It's not due to the fact that all their teachers are somehow magic, or particularly amazing.

Absolutely; it's just convenient for that to be the reason for their success as nobody is ever going to suggest giving state schools smaller class sizes, excellent facilities or motivated parents, now are they!?

The fact that private schools don't have to embrace every stupid 'thought up on the back of a fag packet' brainwave state schools have to, so a) they probably don't have to completely rewrite their planning/resources/ideas every year. They can probably even reuse text books that aren't totally obsolete 6 months later and b) because they aren't wasting time obsessively levelling and tracking each child, planning IEPs down to the nth degree, marking in stupid colours, writing LOs and WILFs and success criteria and AFL, then they probably have time to plan lovely lessons!

Looking at it from the other side, most private school teachers I know (and to be fair, I only know a few) teach there because they hated all those issues I mentioned that they faced in state schools. I can't see many of them being thrilled to have to deal with that bullshit all over again!

[DontGotoRoehampton]

Tristram bloody irritated me only last week with the 'teacher MOT' where we have to be presented with an 'unruly class' to tame to order. I assumed that was the height of stupidity and insult.
However he has topped it, by blithely assuming that the reason my students do not all achieve top grades is down to the fact that my subject knowledge is inadequate and an indie teacher needs to parachuted in to give my students better instruction.
I survived Michael Gove - Tristram would be the final straw.

[rollonthesummer]

Yep! Nicky Morgan is no better, so who on earth am I going to vote for next year!?

[SylviaPouncer]

What's a WILF?

[CharlesRyder]

'What I'm Looking For' - success criteria.

[DustInTheWind]

They could share their planning and paperwork, that would cut down our workload. And textbooks, which would cut the individual resource creation and photocopying.

[namelessposter]

I agree with Grendel - both my children are in private school, chosen for the small class sizes, excellent facilities, broad extra-curricular activities, and future old-boy/girl network. The teaching standard is no better (and sometimes worse) than local state schools, but the school achieves more, because of all their other advantages. I can't see that sending teachers over from our school to the one in the village will make a blind bit of difference to the good work the village school teachers are already doing under much more constrained and demanding circumstances.

[Karasea]

Lovely I can catch up with ex colleagues who left the state system as they couldn't cope with its many demands.

Idiot

[Inthedarkaboutfashion]

There was a thread started on this yesterday. I tried to say the same as OP, but didn't write it quite so well.
I think as well as Tristan hunt et al assuming that private schools are better somehow they are also passing the buck for failing state schools and trying to hold private schools responsible.

I'm not sure that it does come down mainly to money though. Clarendon park cottage prep school in greater manchester charges £4k per year (less than £1500 per term) and it's SATs results place it in the top 100 schools in the country. The fees charged are less than state schools in that area get for funding per pupil (particularly so if you consider pupil premium). It does have class sizes of 20 or under, but if they can achieve such small classes with such low fees why can't state schools provide smaller classes?
I'm hoping somebody who works in education can help answer my questions because it doesn't add up to me.

[FishWithABicycle]

I haven't seen the original statement but is it possible he just meant specialist subjects where the state school doesn't have a qualified teacher in that subject i.e. I think there are quite a few schools where physics is taught by someone with a chemistry degree, and Latin isn't taught at all, due to lack of qualified teachers. If the small number of qualified teachers can be shared out between schools in subjects where there's a shortage, that's a good thing. If he's suggesting that teachers at private schools are intrinsically better, he doesn't have a clue.

[noblegiraffe]

Actually, if it's just about getting kids into top universities, then I reckon private schools which send a tonne of kids to Oxbridge etc have a better idea of how to go through the application process, interview, exams, Step papers etc than the teachers at bog standard comps who rarely, if ever send anyone there. That sort of expertise might be useful to a school that is suddenly faced with a really bright student.

My school sent me off to Oxford for an interview without a clue what I was doing, and when I got there, it was clear that other kids were not in the same position.

[Inthedarkaboutfashion]

Even if we are talking about specialist subject teachers my question is why is he not concentrating on attracting more people to teach those subjects in the state sector. Why is he looking to the private sector to sort the problem?

[Bonsoir]

I agree 100% with the OP.

State school teachers are not the poor relations of private school teachers who require a helping hand to achieve their goals. The starting position is, however, often very different for all stakeholders in state schools: larger class sizes, wider spread of ability, more social and economic disparities, lower management:teacher:pupil ratios, fewer financial resources to supplement classroom teaching etc.

[Nicename]

I think they've shot themselves in the foot with this one.

[DriftingOff]

I'm sure this has been put forward before, probably when I first started teaching, so around 10 years ago. It never took off then either, so I can't imagine it will now. I suspect the sheer logistics and money involved with moving teachers between schools, in order to meet up, share ideas/resources etc. would alone probably break the state education budget anyway.

[areyoutheregoditsmemargaret]

Labour are playing politics of envy for all its worth in the run-up to the election making everything that's wrong in our society seem the fault of private schools, "mansion" owners etc, when in fact the problems run far deeper and need far more radical solutions. Which obviously the Tories aren't providing either. Sigh.

[capsium]

Perhaps they could just do an arranged a 'job swap' with a teacher from the state sector.

This way both sides could learn from each other...

[rollonthesummer]

I'm in, capsicum! Anyone in private school want to swap with me for a week? 30 x y1, 56% EAL, 3 statements, no LSA. Please submit all lesson plans well in advance so SMT can give you time to rewrite them all, bring your highlighters; you'll need them to follow the marking policy :)

[junkfoodaddict]

I have a colleague who switched in January from state to independent prep. She was part time in the state (2 days) and now full time at the independent prep. She loves it and has vowed NEVER to move back to the state sector.

1. Her salary is better full time in independent than it was full time state.
   
2. Observations and book scrutinies happen far less.
   
3. Smaller class sizes (no more than 16 in her class).
   
4. Parents are more engaging and eager for children to learn.
   
5. More support and respect from SLT in independent than state.
   
6. Teaching.style isn't criticised and new initiatives are actually given time to embed and improve before decisions about the effectiveness are made.
   
7. Children have more specialism teaching even at age 5 (sports, music, arts and drama) which gives her more time for PPA.
   
8. Days are longer but she has more holidays (children come in at 8:30 and stay until 3:45 and she has to do one Saturday land one very late evening til 6pm once a term). Holidays are 3 weeks at Christmas and Easter, half terms as normal but 8 weeks in the summer. She doesn't get the first mayday bank holiday but she isn't bothered by that.
   
9. Educational visits happen much more often and children from Y4 have opportunities for residential trips.
   

10. Sick pay and pension scheme is still the same.

Why would any private school teacher want to support state?? I honestly don't think they can. The systems are far too different. State is in a constant state of change whereas private knows what works and sticks to it and even if they share what they do, give another fours years and things will change yet again!

If governments want us to be as successful as private schools then they need to match the funding and allow us the same opportunities (smaller class sizes, more specialist teaching at primary level, more constructive support from outside agencies and SLT, better pay).