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How much goodwill ?

(117 Posts)
Ronaldo Sat 02-Mar-13 17:01:19

I am supposeing that since this is the staffroom and therefore inhabited by teachers mainly?

So, I am just wondering how much you are happy to do as extras ( unpaid and because you are nice folk) before you start saying enough is enough?

Do you draw the line at additional duties? Bus duties , coming in onm a day off ( part timers), school changing school day and requiring more hours for the same pay, school demanding easter revision classes for students on own time? Attending PM and management meetings in ones own time. How about things like trapped time? How much is reasonable - and where is unreasonable?

Also , how doyou expect to be communicated with? e mail. notes,letter, verbally? Not at all? Told or negotiated with? Do you expect a " Hi Guys" management speak tone from someone you do not know ( colleague ) or good English? Where do you draw the line on palley tone (when you are strangers in all but name) with SMT?


Ronaldo Sat 16-Mar-13 17:31:23

Arisbottle, I thought I would ipdate this. It seems management were working on redundancies and have now issued a whole clutch of them around staff. I am not on the hit list, so I guess they are not trying to get rid of me. smile Still clearly the matter signals how they want to procede - more hours and moreadditional gratia working and reduced pay effectively.

Arisbottle Sun 03-Mar-13 23:27:55

But just as state schools differ so will indepedents.

Ronaldo is of the view that the independent sector is superior in every way and therefore I do think it is unlikely that he would make this up.

FelicityWasCold Sun 03-Mar-13 22:58:44

hmm it isn't something I make a habit of. And my opinion is hardly reason to flounce or decry the advice you are being given.

I find myself unable to offer advice because your posts don't seem to hang together and they don't sound like the independent system I know.

However, I'm just as likely to be in the wrong as you so I'd just ignore me if you like.

Arisbottle Sun 03-Mar-13 20:45:27

I hope that this resolves itself, education is clearly something you have strong views on and whether we agree or not , education needs passionate people.

ProphetOfDoom Sun 03-Mar-13 20:45:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ronaldo Sun 03-Mar-13 20:12:40

This doesn't ring entirely true. No top drawer independents are running a level classes of 25, that's just ridiculous. And with 30-50 in a year group, you can't be offering many options to get 25 in a class?

Oh dear, why does someone always have to suggest another poster is lying. I get tired of this.
Where did I say I had 25 in a class? I have 22 in my L6 - and that is too big - and as I said, until a couple of yearsago, it would have been split. Times change though. There are very big uptakes in a small number of subjects and then very small numbers in most of the rest.

We offer many options but pupils pick what they think they can do well in. Many base their selections on previous track records of the courses. So, yes I get a large up take because I have a top track record. You also need to remember most are taking at least 4 subjects. We dont actually prevent any subject combinations (unlike some state schools which block options and that redistributes the classes more evenly).

But , whatever I say you will continue to suggest I am lying. Itts such a shame some posters have to do this. It means one cannot get advice or help or support. I did think twice before writing because I know the track record here. I told it as it is. Very often no one really knows what is going on in insitiutions . Indi schools especially are good at covering.

I thank everyone for their help. I will mull it over. However,I think the track is set. You have helped me get my thoughts in order. Thanks again.

Signing off.

Arisbottle Sun 03-Mar-13 20:00:54

I know of a well known grammar school that has A Level classes of 25.

You are getting a tough deal Evil, I hope they appreciate you. My responsibilty takes up most of my frees and so my teaching workload all takes place at home and that is tough. I cannot imagine having to run a department in that time, particularly when it involves running school shows.

EvilTwins Sun 03-Mar-13 19:57:55

knowsabit The 6th form job takes all my frees and then some... It means I do all my dept stuff at home. Only a small (and nion-core) dept but even so. We have a new deputy so I made a point of telling her on Friday that I'm basically doing the dept job on no time. All our HoY have 12 frees. Heads of small depts get 10. I do both jobs on 12. angry

Knowsabitabouteducation Sun 03-Mar-13 19:35:15

I can't imagine preparing students for UCAS and writing references with basically no extra time.

And a department with 12 teachers must mean you have one or two NQTs at any one time, who will need to be observed and supported. It is hard to do observations if you are teaching all the time yourself.

It puts "trapped time" into perspective.

FelicityWasCold Sun 03-Mar-13 19:34:50

This doesn't ring entirely true. No top drawer independents are running a level classes of 25, that's just ridiculous. And with 30-50 in a year group, you can't be offering many options to get 25 in a class?

The rudeness about state is a bit a lot much as well OP.

Arisbottle Sun 03-Mar-13 18:51:32

Head of sixth form and head of department is huge, I do not envy that workload at all.

EvilTwins Sun 03-Mar-13 17:09:18

I'm head of 6th form and a HoD. My dept is me, plus on part timer. I teach 38/50 per fortnight. Am envy of this 40% thing...

As for goodwill- it has to go both ways. I am happy to give up Sundays and evenings for something like a school play because I choose to. If SLT started insisting I give up time for things, though, my goodwill would wane.

TheFallenMadonna Sun 03-Mar-13 15:50:09

And a third blimey from me. My department, fully staffed, would be 12 FT teachers.

And yes, a big job...

Ronaldo Sun 03-Mar-13 15:45:06

I appreciate that. I am sorry if I offended anyone. You have to remember I have been on the receiving end of these flash all new ideas from state sector bods for sometime now.

For us it doesnt seem to work. The whole ethos is wrong. As many have said here, if parents want a stateschool ethos they could easily go and find that in the local comp. They pay us for something different I think.

Its not just class size ( and it isnt just snobbiness as some oft think )

I know I am not paying for target driven KS levelling, jump through hoops education for my DS either.

Maybe I should say that we seem to have attraced staff who are not suited to our school but I should add I suspect may have left state schools under some cloud too. Too often that tends to be the case.

Interesting how you all seem to see a HoD as a " big job". In my school at least half the HoDs are little more than one man bands ( in subjects which dont run to A level ) or who are in charge of one or two other teachers.

Most depts can run on one and a half teachers in my school. We may have more than that ( languages for example have one teacher per language). Maths Science and English have two or three staff in depts. Music and Drama areone man bands - and they teach from ist yeat to sixth form withn a couple of peri teachers coming in for instrument s and LAMBDA

A couple of depts even run with just two part timers. There are differences of scale.

TheFallenMadonna Sun 03-Mar-13 15:32:49

x post with you making it even worse...

I think you've had a lot of support on this thread from state school teachers.

Arisbottle Sun 03-Mar-13 15:31:30

Ronaldo this thread is dominated by state school teachers who are trying to help you, we have all been polite and asked thoughtful questions. Now you are telling us that we are likely to be disrespectful and ignorant. I am going to get back to my marking.

TheFallenMadonna Sun 03-Mar-13 15:31:13

Like I said, most of them are doing 45/50 themselves, plus all the extra directed time that has been thrust upon us. I can't fault my colleagues. But I don't currently have enough of them!

Ronaldo - steady on with the state school stuff. Not sure we want the management bollocks either...

Arisbottle Sun 03-Mar-13 15:29:31

No one on this thread has said that independent school teachers are not qualified or not very good teachers.

I suspect that you would call me brassy but I am very highly qualified and certainly can teach - despite being in the state sector.

Ronaldo Sun 03-Mar-13 15:29:21

In my last school ( state) the manners and generalprofessionalattitude of the SMT and a large number of the staff too sometimes was disrespectful and often plain ignorant. I think target clture and management speak are symptomatic of this kind of very bad manners.

Knowsabitabouteducation Sun 03-Mar-13 15:27:40

I hope your colleagues all pull together with dept admin, and not leave it all up to you!

TheFallenMadonna Sun 03-Mar-13 15:26:59

And our standard allocation is 45/50. 10% PPA.

Arisbottle Sun 03-Mar-13 15:26:41

I think there is a balance to be had, most of our A Level classes are shared bewteen two teachers which means the A level teaching gets shared amongst the department. However that does not mean that everyone amongst the department teaches A Level and it would be quite unusual that the HOD does not. I teach very ittle key stage three, there was a year when I only taught key stage four and five. I am not a HOD but a senior member of staff , I think it is important that teachers are spread across the year groups.

Ronaldo Sun 03-Mar-13 15:26:06

To dispel a mythdespite my being rather negative right now. I have heardmany times that suppodely independent school teachersare not qualified or not good teachers or some equal foolishnes.

In fact in my experience, all my colleagues in an independent school have been of the utmost professional standing and top drawer academically.
They have all been qualified teachers. Most have been experienced too. They could all teach. You cant get by in an independent school without being able to teach.

Never ,until recently have I begun to meet the type ofteacher who is characterising our SMT now. All theseteachers are ex state school - and frankly they might be better off back there.

Independent schools like mine are ( or have been ) classy, not brassy. The ethjos has been one of Brooklands or Devon School or even Mallory Towers rather than Bash Streetor Grange Hill. Its probably that which parents pay for , although most would be quiet about saying it.

You will notice I declined to put my own DS in my own school - now you know why.

TheFallenMadonna Sun 03-Mar-13 15:25:41

Tell me about it.

I am actually struggling quite a bit at the moment. Not least because I have to set and mark work for all those missing staff as well as my own classes, in my princely 8 frees a fortnight!!

Like Ronaldo, I am considering my position...

Knowsabitabouteducation Sun 03-Mar-13 15:23:11

That is so much, TFM!

Our standard allocation is 32/50. A HOD would be 28 or 30 depending on the size of dept.

I am on 25/50.

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