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How much goodwill ?

(117 Posts)
Ronaldo Sat 02-Mar-13 17:01:19

I am supposeing that since this is the staffroom and therefore inhabited by teachers mainly?

So, I am just wondering how much you are happy to do as extras ( unpaid and because you are nice folk) before you start saying enough is enough?

Do you draw the line at additional duties? Bus duties , coming in onm a day off ( part timers), school changing school day and requiring more hours for the same pay, school demanding easter revision classes for students on own time? Attending PM and management meetings in ones own time. How about things like trapped time? How much is reasonable - and where is unreasonable?

Also , how doyou expect to be communicated with? e mail. notes,letter, verbally? Not at all? Told or negotiated with? Do you expect a " Hi Guys" management speak tone from someone you do not know ( colleague ) or good English? Where do you draw the line on palley tone (when you are strangers in all but name) with SMT?


LindyHemming Sat 02-Mar-13 20:32:24

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ronaldo Sat 02-Mar-13 20:58:17

Thank you for that. I might put that idea up as a suggestion. We do not seem to have any kind of direction on the matter - hence my question.

Trapped time - the time which is stuck in the middle of a timetable which is not paid for and is not part of a teachers teaching hours but which forces them to stay in school unpaid.

For example ( which is why I am adsking about this) on my present timetable I teach 14 periods over three days ( in fact logistically it should be possible to do that in two days with time to spare). It amounts to around a nominal 0.4 timetable ( nominal because it is actually slightly less). However, the time is split so that I teach first lessons in the morning and last lessons of the day only and some 27 hours is trapped between. This time is unpaid and technically my own should I choose to exercise the right to come home.

However, I am having some issues with my esteemend line manager who seems to think that the time is the schools and I should be willing ( good will) to do whatever they ask and attend whatever meetings they ask - and do duties and all other things in that time or after school in some instances .

In questioning this I am being told that I am failing to offer goodwill and that I am not entering into the spirit of what the school is about. I am also told other teachers are happly doing all of these things without question in other schools and it is part of being a teacher.

Added to that my esteenmed manager is writing me e mails in management speak ( asking me to think outside the envelope and to touch base with him .... in my own trapped time of course....... and start balls rolling on various issues. I personally object to this but was told it was normal to be addressed in this way these days! I asked then if I was allowed to write the reports for the parents in such terms ( a resounding NO). so I am somewhat annoyed right now and thinking of giving the school and the job the elbow.

I like teaching but I do feel unhappy about this mission creep ( to use the management speak) or the pushing of the envelope ( another cringeworthy phrase). The trouble is I dont know if I am wrong and plain old fashioned to feel this way.

Arisbottle Sat 02-Mar-13 21:04:03

I think that teaching does rely on goodwill however when it is your goodwill it is up to you to dictate how much you are willing to give.

When I was part time I would come in on my day off because I would rather get my marking done in school hours than in the evening. I think I would do most of the things on your list ( apart from Easte revision - although I have done in the past) but I would not want anyone to assume that I would do them. Although as part of the management team I think the expectations are higher - rightly so.

No one emails me in management speak - but I would not take someone to task on their email style unless it was offensive.

BranchingOut Sat 02-Mar-13 21:22:46

Ignore the management speak, I don't think it is worth taking issue with that.

Trapped time - I think it is reasonable to do the occasional favour eg. doing a break duty if someone is taken ill, helping out with a cover period if the school is really in a fix, but not as an expected thing.

Your routes are:

Choosing to disappear in this time for a few weeks
Flagging up that you are unpaid and therefore might not be properly insured to take on teaching duties in that time? Mmm...

Ronaldo Sat 02-Mar-13 21:27:06

I teach 9 hrs and 20 mins a week to A level students only. Thats my job. My job titlestate clearly I am paid for 14 periods a week ( thats 14 x 35 mins - or sometimes 40 mins depending on the lesson position)

I get paid £12K ( before tax) for that + an allowance of £200 to attend 3 HoD meetings a year, organise a budget and enter pupils for exams etc. I am not paid for PPE . I have no " free periods" in that. All marking and paperwork is unpaid (or rather calculated as part of the 12K)

I would not be that bothered if it were not for the sudden change in culture in the school which seems frankly to think that they can demand full time working from me for part time hours and pay and contract.

Hence I am likely to be saying goodbye soon.

I would probably be less upset if it were not for the fact that several other part time teachers who are mothers seem to be getting very good timetables ( working 27 periods over 3 days and with a 3:30 finish - mine is 4:30 each day and I only teach 14 periods) to accommodate their child care and this seems to be at my expense . I too have a family. I would like to see them sometimes. But it seems the school think I am demanding too much in suggesting that.

Neither do I see why I should be attending PM and similarmeetings after school just to accommodate my SMT leader because he cant fit them in elsewhere - or being asked to use my personal time to come into school to see him. I have precious little of it left. The reason for working part time was so I did not have to do so many hours.

TheFallenMadonna Sat 02-Mar-13 21:34:35

It is usual for teachers (including part timers) to have non contact directed time. This can be used for PM and management meetings. You should have sufficient paid non contact time to meet your line manager.

I do lots extra at the moment because my department is woefully understaffed. My goodwill is stretched to breaking point (as am I...) and it is towards my students and very much not SLT.

Ronaldo Sat 02-Mar-13 21:38:54

Oh I forgot that - am I insured to look after the kids in trapped time? Good one.

Yes, I have taken to disappearing off site but this is how the situation arose. SMT to me " I would like to see you period 5 today to touch base about targets" ( I teach pd1 and 2 and then 7 and 8 on the afternoon) . Thats lap in the middle of my trapped time. Me I say " Oh sorry, I am off site then as I am not contracted during that time. I will be back this afternoon to teach and then off again"

Him " but that not good show. You need to be more flexible and think yourself lucky you have a job. Other teachers would do it For example ( he names a silly colleague who seems to do all things because she is, I know desperate for a job) would come in. You should too."

I said, "sorry, otherwise engaged today. E mail me with some possible times and dates, I will get back" ........ and on we go and it keeps happening.

Then he suggested 5:40 ( after he finished with the boarding duties) but that requires me to stay on site over an hour after school finishes for me. I cant win. As if I dont do enough.

I dont mind parents evenings, HoD meetings , paperwork ( I used to take it home and I was and am amongst the first to get it done often). I domost things - even take prep although its not on my contract and is specifoed as one thing I am not expected to do - although to hear this guy you wouldnt think it.

Rant over - thanks.

Arisbottle Sat 02-Mar-13 21:46:25

I am not sure you can say that you never see your family when you work three days a week and finish at 4:30pm. That would be a dream for most of us.

Having said that , they should not treat you as a full timer.

Ronaldo Sat 02-Mar-13 21:49:46

There is no directed time or free paid periods in my timetable. I was contracted to teach and my time wascontact only ( we had an agreement that any paperwork would be done by me whereever convenient - usually at home - and for a fixed supliment of £200 a year and that also covered HoD meetings.

I do not get paid for anything else and paying me, even for coming to a staff INSET on a day off has never been suggested. They think I should do it for free it seems - although HT acknowledges I dont have to do it at all if I dont want to ( and a number of part time staff have refused to do such things).

These meetings I am being asked for are a new one.

Ronaldo Sat 02-Mar-13 21:53:02

But Arisbottle, most part timers are not paid to teach 9 hours and end up sitting at work to work those hours either do they? By the way, I do not have an office or a computer ( or a classroom tocall my own) to do any work at work - hence I have to come home and do it.
Thats why previously the school has been flexible with how I work Until this year.

Ronaldo Sat 02-Mar-13 21:55:32

I never finish at 4:30 Arisbottle. Its 5:00 pm before I getout of school usually I never get home before 6:3o because of rush hour traffic. Then I have to do prep and work. I see my DW and DS at weekends ( providing none of the students have sent me great files to mark ( they e mail me anytime during term time - and some e mail me in holidays too).

TheFallenMadonna Sat 02-Mar-13 21:55:48

There was someone in my department who worked two full days and took her PPA on her days off so to speak. She was paid for them, and was very flexible in terms of attending after school meetings, parents' evenings and some INSET days.

Arisbottle Sat 02-Mar-13 21:56:56

Most part timers would get their planning and assessment done in that time . It is very odd that you do not have any paid PPA time. Even odder that there is no where for you to work . It sounds like a very badly funded school .

Arisbottle Sat 02-Mar-13 22:00:53

Having worked part time in the past you do have my sympathy , it is a tough gig. I always attended parents evenings and INSET days.

It is not your school's fault you live 90mins away.

However if they made an agreement with you that you could work flexibly they should honour that . Especially if you are doing extra already .

Is it possible that they are trying to push you out?

RainbowsFriend Sat 02-Mar-13 22:06:48

I agree that no PPA is very odd.

I am a part timer as well and teach 50% timetable spread over 4 days - I therefore have trapped time as well as "trapped" PPA. I just do all my marking and stuff then, while I am in school. Seems daft not to to me. I also don't have a classroom or office so work in the staffroom, or the back of someone else's classroom.

We are often expected to do extra revision classes unpaid as well - I rarely actually get a lunchbreak - and we are expected to do clubs, and bus/break duties as well. I don;t mind this too much.

We are also occasionally expected to go in at Easter to run revision classes as well. I REALLY don't like doing this sad

The management speak would get my back up as well - but it's really a non-issue.

Ronaldo Sat 02-Mar-13 22:19:40

Arisbottle, the school is well funded and I suspect most parents ( who pay biug time fees) would be surprised to hear of the Dickensian working conditions and practices really. But that is the way it is.

I repeat I do not get PPA. I do not getpaid non contact time and there isnt even anything onmy contract to say I have to be there for staff meetings or INSETS or anything else. There isnt even the idea I do it at home instead either - thats my goodwill and always was.

I am one of three A level only teachers in the school who run courses specific to A level and are paid for contact time only.

In the past it has not been a problem - now it is, precisely for the reasons you point out, most teachers get paid frees. My contract was different. I was considered to be such short hours that such things were not worth it. It was cost effective to give me a contract like mine.

The new SMT though have failed to realise some of us are not on the same contracts as others. Of course the Bursar wont pay for any additional non contact ( it has been talked about) so the situation remains and besides it would mean a change in my contract.

Ronaldo Sat 02-Mar-13 22:23:48

I do not live 90 mins way arisbottle. I live 40mins away max - its the rush hour traffic that put the time on. Previously I always finished by around 3:00 pm and got away before the rush hour. The new timetabler has trapped me in school for three full days. Its also meant I dont get to go home before the crowds.

As I said, I do feel done down because several other teachers have gone from full time to part time and have three full day timetables ( around 70% of full time) and also get early finishes but it has to be at the cost of timetabling me to the graveyard shifts in lessons.

Ronaldo Sat 02-Mar-13 22:28:11

Are they trying to push me out _ I dont think they are trying anything. I think they havent thought and the newcommers havent a clue about my contract .

The fact they trapped the time has led the silly billoies with management speak to think I am there and I can do whatever they ask - the HT and DH know thats not the case.

They are pushing the envelope and hoping I will go along - and I have stopped going along.

Last year we lost 16 staff over reasons like this I have just mentioned. Good staff. Top exam performers and its beginning to show. I noticed a thread on here about some of the issues at my school and I thought if the parents really knew what was going on ......

TheFallenMadonna Sat 02-Mar-13 22:31:00

What question are you asking? I understand you don't get PPA. I'm saying it is unusual, although my experience is only of state schools.

My school (an academy) increased our directed time without consultation. The unions got involved and there was a temporary backing down, but it is under review and they will do it again, only using the right process

It is pretty standard for us to offer holiday revision classes.

The management speak emails are irrelevant apart from that they add to your lack of goodwill.

Ronaldo Sat 02-Mar-13 22:31:37

Rainbow - if I wasdoing a 50% timetable I would have the same conditions as you describe. However, less than 50% as mine is, those conditions do not apply. ( I have a 0. 35 timetable I think) . Thats the problem . Some of the new SMT have failed to realise it - despite being told and they look blankly when you try to explain and then carry on as if you never said anything (or worse, you are lying)

Ronaldo Sat 02-Mar-13 22:36:49

What am I asking - really , how much should I be giving?

Finding out what others are doing helps place the boundaries for me.

I think I am being asked too much. I give a lot but it goes unrecognised because it is all student time. Yet when I draw a line, I am immediately lambasted for lacking good will. I give PM meetings a low importance rating - especially since the targets I get have nothing to do with what I am doing. I find myself with targets for things relating to the lower school and I dont even teach in the school. I cant see why they cannot be set by a series of e mails or notes. No need to have meetings. I am not even sure I should be getting PM targets.

TheFallenMadonna Sat 02-Mar-13 22:40:39

Oh lord. PM. I have to provide evidence that I am meeting every teaching standard. One of which is that I don't fail to uphold traditional British values. And yes, I am expected to provide evidence of this negative. Management consultants on governing bodies hmm

TheFallenMadonna Sat 02-Mar-13 22:43:44

Anyway, back to your concerns...

I would ask for a meeting with your line manager and the head to set out clearly the expectations you all have. Things have obviously changed in your school, and you are drifting. After expectations are clear, you can make the decision about whether you want to remain in post.

ProphetOfDoom Sat 02-Mar-13 22:45:00

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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