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AIBU to consider Sir Michael Wilshaw a total arse?

(26 Posts)
corblimeymadam Sat 22-Sep-12 07:24:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LindyHemming Sat 22-Sep-12 07:36:50

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cricketballs Sat 22-Sep-12 08:15:39

After careful reading of what he said (not just the headlines on the news) I am thinking that is interesting the timing between this and the start of the action short of strike that we begin in 4 days time....

elliepac Sat 22-Sep-12 08:23:53

The man is a twunt of the highest order. Even when I do leave straight away at the end of the school day to spend time with my DC's I am working late into the night.

He hasn't got a clue.

Born2bemild Sat 22-Sep-12 08:42:56

The man has absolutely no shame. Does he really think he helps anyone? He makes morale low in schools, and makes parents doubt the system. Lose lose.

elliepac Sat 22-Sep-12 09:01:06

I read an article where he said that if morale was low in a school then the headteacher was doing a good job!

As I said, twunt!

cat Sat 22-Sep-12 09:39:05

He's also a scumbag who had numerous affairs when his kids were very young.

partystress Sat 22-Sep-12 09:46:20

Was so incensed that I sent my first ever disgusted of Tonbridge Wells letter to The Times - before I'd even had my morning cuppa. His statements are so clearly politicised that Ofsted now has lost whatever shred of credibility it had.

DoItRight Sat 22-Sep-12 09:48:50

Oh my god he's an arse! What about his comment that if teachers in deprived areas want to work there they have to accept that they will have to be surrogate parents. And should only get pay rises if they're willing to do so? I am sure that many teachers already do so because they want to help their students without thinking of the money, but they shouldn't HAVE to. I'm pretty sure resentful teachers who hang around after school because they are forced to tick a box so they can get a pay rise are going to be worse than not being there at all.
Twat angry

DoItRight Sat 22-Sep-12 09:50:14

Oh and good point cricketballs. I hadn't cottoned on to the timing of it...
Even more of an arse angryangry

Abra1d Sat 22-Sep-12 09:54:55

At our local primary, which both my children attended, where I have worked as a volunteer every week for nine years now, and where my husband has been a governor for four, there is a teacher who is frequently off sick, never volunteers for extra duties, avoids any out of hours meetings, and relies on other people (some of whom have now left because of his attitude: they told me they were having to do part of his job as well as theirs).

Why should he be paid the same as the teacher in the next class room who is none of these things? It would be very hard to sack him. So what other way is there of showing the harder working teachers that their effort has been noted.

Lifeissweet Sat 22-Sep-12 09:59:53

Well I came on mn purely because I wanted to see the opinions on this story this morning. I have been teaching for 5 years now, but trained in the school in which I teach, so my wider experience is limited. However, I know of exactly NO staff who turn up later than 8 and leave earlier than me. I leave earliest because I have to get to the childminder's for 5 and live across the city from work. I leave at 4.30, but I always take work home. It would be completely impossible to get the work done if I didn't.

The reason I wanted to ask is that I have had a couple of discussions with DP recently about the amount of work I bring home. He gets annoyed that I don't have time with him in the evenings because of marking and planning. He claims that other teachers don't do this much and that I'm over-working myself for no reason. I have told him that all my colleagues do the same and that we are under intense scrutiny day-in-day-out and so much getting a day behind on marking would be spotted and mentioned (I do realise my school is particularly hot on monitoring and scrutiny, but that is beside the point - you can't afford to get behind even if no one is watching).

In an attempt to prove me wrong, he called his best friend, who is a teacher in another part of the country, to ask how much work he takes home. The answer: 'none'. He also has no planning scrutinies, no weekly book monitoring and seems to manage staying until 5 and then going home with nothing else to do. I just don't see how this can be possible!

So I just wanted to check that my experience of teaching is not wildly out of kilter and that my outrage at the suggestion that there are thousands of teachers arriving 5 minutes before the children and beating them out of the school gate is justified.

TheFallenMadonna Sat 22-Sep-12 10:07:27

Teachers vary in their commitment to providing out of hours support for students, even if a vanishingly small number of then are actually out the door at 3pm. Whether that should be linked to pay is the question being asked I suppose. In my department, I have people who come in during the holidays for extra tuition and run after school lessons, and some who don't. It's not compulsory, but that kind of intervention is what made our results improve. And yes, I think it makes a difference when you work with certain students. They can study at school. And that's it.

I resent the implication that there are a bunch of lazy teachers who should be financially penalized, but recognising extra work is not something I am against actually.

cricketballs Sat 22-Sep-12 10:07:51

In my experience, those who stay on at school until late do the majority (not all, still work at home) of their work at school but they in general don't have to go rushing home to care for their dc etc. I have always left at 4/4.30 to collect my dc, cook, clean etc (my dh works much longer hours) so they have a stable home life and not eating at silly hours in the night. Once they are settled, I then get my school work out......

TheFallenMadonna Sat 22-Sep-12 10:09:49

He isn't talking about prep and marking. He's talking about time with students. That can only be done in school.

Lifeissweet Sat 22-Sep-12 10:10:45

Abra1D - I completely see your point if that is true. I have to say I know no teachers like that, but I don't deny that some must exist.

However, I know that at my school, a lack of effort would be picked up when the marking wasn't up to date, when the planning wasn't completed and evaluated (we hand in our annotated planning every week) and when the quality of children's work was lacking. The progress of the children is monitored and we spend an hour every term with the Head going through which children in the class are making less than expected progress and putting in place strategies to move them on. Not putting in the hours would show pretty quickly.

However, he would say that staying on the premises late is not necessarily a marker of this. School can be a distracting place. Sometimes there is more to be gained by going somewhere quiet. It isn't about being in school, it's about doing the work - and we would be on special scrutiny like a shot if standards started to slip.

Also, I teach in an extremely deprived inner city Primary. We put an awful lot of resources and time into mentoring and providing pastoral care for our children - but 'parenting' is not our job or our place. I'm not even entirely sure what he means by that. We give children boundaries and routines and emotional support, but only in school. We can't follow them home and make sure this carries on there. We refer them to outside agencies if they need family support, but I don't really know how much more we can be expected to do!

Lifeissweet Sat 22-Sep-12 10:13:07

Well we all do that too! We are expected to run at least one after school club. Most of us work for a week or two at the holiday schemes. I thought all of this was normal. Is it not?

TheFallenMadonna Sat 22-Sep-12 10:16:07

It is in good schools in deprived areas. Which is where he is coming from of course.

EvilTwins Sat 22-Sep-12 10:32:03

I had an interesting chat with DH about this after reading about it in the paper. DH firmly believes that getting too involved (the "surrogate parent" bit) is wrong. I know he's right really, but it's difficult. I've been dealing with a boy this week whose stepfather has told him to leave- we helped sort him out and I spent a couple of evenings worrying about it. Not sure that warrants extra pay! I do have one colleague who routinely leaves at 3, is unprepared and in obs, has no interest in being anything above satisfactory (and makes no secret of it) We are both HOD. I am slightly pissed off that we get the same pay.

Derceto Sat 22-Sep-12 10:45:57

Of course there are teachers who come and go in the bell and then do little at home , they are in the minority but they exist .

I think you have to accept as well that if you work in a certain kind if school you will be a surrogate parent, it comes with the territory, if you don't want to do that teach in a different kind of school . Often a poor or failing teacher is simply placed in the wrong school .

EvilTwins Sat 22-Sep-12 10:50:42

Yes, but is that RIGHT? I sometimes feel that I get too involved- I could give examples, but it would be a long post! Surely this isn't a teacher's job?

Derceto Sat 22-Sep-12 10:51:33

If he is talking about teachers doing work or running clubs for children outside of core hours again the number not doing this is greater. They have the right to not do it and it is better for teachers to volunteer rather than be forced. But it is wrong to say that all teachers are working with children before and after school.

EvilTwins Sat 22-Sep-12 10:52:35

I don't think anyone's saying that all teachers are doing that.

Derceto Sat 22-Sep-12 11:02:37

I don't know whether it is right, in some ways it is a pointless question because there are children who for a variety of reasons will need a "surrogate parent figure" and as teachers we are the professionals who see the children every day and therefore it is likely that children will look to us to fulfill that role.

Teachers need to be very realistic about the kinds of schools they are working in and the demands they will face. I have worked in a school with a high level of deprivation and at interview the head was very open with me and said you will spend almost as much if your day doing social work as you will teaching. They are difficult children and it can be emotionally tough. I went in with my eyes open and lasted about six years in that particular school . Emotionally and physically it was tough and I knew myself well enough to know when I was no longer able to give the amount that the children required. I was giving children breakfast in the morning and food after school , buying and washing their uniform , home visits and trying to get help from social services over some horrific abuse. Axes or neglect. I I think teachers in those kind of schools do deserve more pay than teachers in schools like mine.

backwardpossom Sat 22-Sep-12 11:03:24

My school isn't open long enough for me to get all my work done. Out the door by 5:30pm or you set the alarms off when you leave. (I've done that once, had to send grovelling apology and ciggies to the janitors.) I sometimes do have to leave on the bell to pick up DS, but I then do work once he goes to bed. Maybe that doesn't count...

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