Stop breeding designer cats

[SanFranBear]

Interesting but very short piece on the Scottish fold cats which seem to be the sleb 'cat of choice' at the moment.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-39728797/should-designer-cats-be-banned

I personally think there are enough cats in the world without breeding more but is the breeder right when she says other breeds have just as many problems...

I must admit I know nothing about this side of things as my cats have been rescues.

[thecatneuterer]

I agree wholeheartedly with you. And I've been involved in a fair number of breeder cruelty cases, which also colours my view.

But yes, many of the breeds have inbred health problems and there are just too many cats for the numbers of homes anyway - why deliberately make more?

I know this is a polarising subject on here though.

[Toddlerteaplease]

I agree. My Persian princesses were used as breeding queens in a kitten farm. Mine have got quite open faces (nose well below the bottom of eyes) even so, one has had nose surgery as her nose is minute. but some of the really smooshed faces make me feel sick. And look very uncomfortable. Wasn't impressed to see that the winner in the Persian section of the GCCF supreme cat show had a massively overbred face. Couldn't believe they were allowed to enter them like that. My parents cat is a 1/2 Scottish fold half BSH. But he's not got the folded ears and he's a beautiful beast, as well he knows. He was also a rescue.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

I completely agree, the same applies to dogs too though.

[SanFranBear]

Just to be clear - the title was about the video, not a call to action, so to speak.

I don't know why as I know some dog breeds suffer terribly, but I never thought of pedigree cats having issues.

[tabulahrasa]

"but is the breeder right when she says other breeds have just as many problems"

No.

There are various breeds with health issues, some easily avoided by proper health testing and some that wouldnt exist if breeders didn't go for extremes. So it's completely possible to have a healthy pedigree cat, if people only bought them fro me good breeders.

The fold in Scottish folds only happens if their cartilage is mutated, there is no way to breed for only some cartilage being affected, so the health issues are completely unavoidable. They can outcross with BSH or ASH to try and limit how badly affected they are, but, they need to have a cartilage problem to have the fold.

So no, it's not the same at all.

[Toddlerteaplease]

Since seeing how my cats have been affected by being over bred in poor conditions I get really cross about breeders attitudes.

[OrangeJulius]

I love pedigree cats and own two bengals (I also have a pedigree dog), but feel strongly no breed should have a genetic deformity as it's defining characteristic. I can't support scottish folds, nor munchkins, nor the many breeds of dog who these days who have life-limiting deformities as part of their "type."

Unfortunately when so many people buy pets with little thought or research, I'm not sure what can be done about it. People will keep buying scottish folds, munchkins, flat-faced pugs, over-wrinkled sharpeis, etc etc because they are cute.

Thinking about the pet trade can be seriously depressing.

[OrangeJulius]

I personally think there are enough cats in the world without breeding more

On a separate note, I see this sentiment a lot on here when discussing pedigrees, and I don't really understand the logic. Shelters are not full of pedigree cats. Pedigree cats are a subset of the cat population, many of which are thoughtfully bred, and for which there is a demand (by which I mean these cats will easily find homes). And of course, if we stopped breeding them, many beautiful breeds of cat would no longer exist.

Shelters are usually filled with your standard domestic, which I suspect are not thoughtfully but indeed numerously bred, maybe when people do not spay or neuter their cats before letting them out, or when people decide to breed their cat for some spurious reason like letting the kids see a birth. I don't know. But shelter cats are clearly coming from somewhere, and this somewhere is not pedigree breeders.

[thecatneuterer]

Orange - you're right in the sense that shelters are not normally full of pedigree cats, although we do get some. The argument assumes that if people didn't get a pedigree they could get a rescue moggy. It's not a case of a pedigree or no cat at all. They have space in their lives for a cat, so wouldn't it be better to take one out of rescue rather than pay people to bring yet more cats into the world.

If it really is a case of a pedigree or nothing then your argument holds water. But I can't imagine why anyone would feel like that.

[thecatneuterer]

And yes, all cat welfare organisations are trying their damnest to educate people about neutering etc etc, but with stray cats currently giving birth in just about every other garden shed we are a very long way from solving the problem. So in the meantime it would be a huge help if everyone who wanted a cat/kitten would take one from a rescue rather than paying either a chancer from Gumtree or even a pedigree breeder to create yet more.

[neonrainbow]

But some people like pedigree cats. What if you want say a siamese cat. In this case, a moggy from a rescue isn't going to fulfill what you want from a cat. I also don't agree with breeding animals with health defects such as Scottish fold, but if you want a pedigree animal there's actually nothing wrong with that. If I'm going to get a cat that ill have for 20 years I'm going to pick one i like the characteristics of.

For what its worth i would always consider rescuing an animal and have done so in the past. But i don't think people should be guilt tripped into rescues above all else. Back yard breeders are more of a problem than pedigree breeders.

[tabulahrasa]

"They have space in their lives for a cat, so wouldn't it be better to take one out of rescue rather than pay people to bring yet more cats into the world."

Hmm, my first cat was a Siamese - I actually didn't particularly want a cat, my DP did and she was our compromise between a cat and a dog... I've now got a moggy (they did co-exist for a while, but the Siamese is no more)

My moggy is lovely and I'd not be without her, but I have a Siamese space in my house, not a cat space - they're not the same at all.

If I was looking for another cat, rescue or otherwise (and yes I'd always look for a rescue first) I'd not be looking for a moggy, not because there's anything wrong with one, just, they're not the same type of pet at all.

There are different types of breeders, I'm ok with giving money to someone who does everything they need to do for the health of their cats and is trying very hard not to add to rescue populations by making sure they stay in touch with the owners they sell to and having an open offer to always take back a kitten they produced, some breeders are involved in rescue as well.

That's a hugely different situation to someone who is trying to make a quick buck selling badly bred pedigrees on gumtree or someone who just leaves an unneutered cat to have kittens with whatever tom it meets whenever it goes into heat and then sells them off.

It's definitely different from intentionally breeding cats with a cartilage problem because it looks 'cute'.

[thecatneuterer]

No, fair enough. I do accept that some people really do want a particular breed. I don't understand it (just like I can't understand why anyone would want children) but (in both cases) I accept that it happens.

As long as the breed isn't one that has inbred health problems, and the breeder is a good one, then it isn't the biggest threat to cat welfare. As you say, people just not neutering moggies is at the root of the oversupply problem and the cause of cat colonies springing up in back gardens and so on. Getting rid of all pedigree breeding would have a small favourable impact on the oversupply of cats, but really its impact would be just a drop in the ocean.

[Weedsnseeds1]

I think cats have been luckier than dogs in terms of over breeding, for the most part. But some of the older breeds like Persians are definitely suffering now.
Possibly the newer designer breeds like Bengals and ocicats don't have too many health issues, having a "newer" gene pool, not too familiar as I have never had one, but possibly behaviour issues as a bit too close to their wild side still?
My cat's inbred rather than over bred, but seems healthy so far ( although perhaps a touch of gigantism) 😀

[Weedsnseeds1]

TCN cats, rather than children, any day here too!

[SanFranBear]

I find that really interesting, Tabulah - about your hole being Siamese shaped rather than just 'cat'. Again, showing my ignorance, but I never really considered the different personalities of the cats might be dependent on their breed - perhaps because that report was all about how the cat looked and to me, who they are is far more important than how they look. But it's bloody obvious now it's pointed out!

I also agree that BYB are the main cause of the over-population, certainly in this country, but what the answer is to that is perhaps not for this thread.

Thanks for your thoughts - and right now with a three day weekend looming, I'm wondering if I can somehow transform my DC into cats to make it easier on us all!

[Floweringjasmine]

I agree with you too, I struggle to understand why people support breeding more cats.
I have the sweetest rescue moggy and our local rescue is over run with kittens and cats.
They quite often have pedigree ones too as I see on FB.

[Toddlerteaplease]

It didn't occur to me about cat breeds having different characters. Until I got my Persians. They are completely different to any of my childhood cats. So I totally get having a 'Siamese' hold in your life. I walked past a cat cafe in a neighbouring city yesterday and almost broke in when I saw there was a Persian in the window. Not so bothered about the other two moggies. But I wanted that Persian!!!

[tabulahrasa]

"perhaps because that report was all about how the cat looked and to me, who they are is far more important than how they look."

Yep, I've never picked a pet by how it looks - we had a dog whose name actually ended up being ugly at one point, rofl. (Someone left him tied to our gate and after we kept him, it stuck)

I don't know much about other breeds, but orientals have a really different personality to DSHs.

My moggy is fairly low maintenance, if there's food and water out, someone about enough to be her door opener and give her the ten minutes of stroking a day she decides she wants, she's happy.

My Siamese would have a 5 minute report on what she'd done if I nipped to the shops without her, lol, I know people post in here sometimes after getting one who really struggle with the clinginess of a Siamese who has bonded with them, it is in terms of attention and affection much more like having a dog than a cat.

[hapagirl]

I'm another that's not bothered about breeds. I only have a cat shaped hole in my heart and all my animals are rescues though I did have a pedigree rescue dog once. I guess I would be more concerned about dog personality traits rather than cat ones. Dogs can be dangerous. At worst cats can be annoying.

[Floweringjasmine]

Very annoying, my moggy practically sobs if she can't see me or find anyone to attend to her.

[MinniesAndMickeysNeedCounting]

Not everyone gets a pedigree cat on a whim or because they don't consider rescue centres though.
We wanted to get another cat, currently have 1, we contacted a rescue but weren't considered suitable. We live by a fairly busy road, which makes us unsuitable but having a cat as a indoor cat also makes us unsuitable. Can't win there, we'll never be able to give a much needed home to cat sitting in rescue. So we'll go to a breeder and my dh breed of choice is Persians, we had one years ago in a previous house who we did get from a rescue and died from being poisoned when out, which is why we choose to keep this cat as indoor only.

Is there any guidelines out there on how to choose a responsibly bred cat, persian in this case because I don't want to fuel irresponsible breeders and want a healthy happy cat, not one with exaggerated features or health defects.

[neonrainbow]

If anything, surely getting a cat from a well researched and considerate breeder is one of the better ways to acquire a new pet because if you're paying £500 for an animal you're not going to take it lightly.

[Toddlerteaplease]

Mine. There are specialist Persian rescues around. My Persians came from St Francis Persian rescue near Ripon and there are several others that I know of. Can totally understand your DH wanting a Persian, they are amazing although completely un cat like. (Or maybe that's just my two!)

[RandomMess]

We have pedigree cats but they aren't a popular pedigree so we had to wait to be able to rehome some. They are famous for their personalities more than their looks.

A huge problem is BYB and the fact that some breeds suddenly become hugely popular and often people buy them who don't understand the breed - Maine Coons are very popular at the moment but most need regular brushing and are huge so can be quite destructive and they're not always chilled they also come in a fearful neurotic personality type too. Their pedigree club is over ran with ones needing to be rehomed