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If you are looking for a puppy please read this page first...

(31 Posts)
goshandspecs Sat 08-Sep-12 19:33:22

WTFwasthat Sat 08-Sep-12 21:45:39

oh my goodness. Each and every one is shocking. A friend of mine bought a bichon x yorkie and he died at 16 weeks. how dreadful for these poor dogs. To think that it is till happening is jsut truly dreadful sadsad

saintmerryweather Sat 08-Sep-12 23:26:51

there is so much information freely available about buying puppies, from the kennel club, vets etc, that i have no sympathy for anyone who is so utterly stupid that they buy puppies from pet shops. i just feel sorry for the dogs who continue to suffer churning out puppies to meet a market created by people too lazy to do their research properly when buying their puppy

SharpObject Sat 08-Sep-12 23:44:15


I don't have dogs, I'm a cat kinda women but sad

midori1999 Sun 09-Sep-12 11:34:03

I disagree actually that the information is out there. Maybe about buying from pet shops, yes, but puppy farmers are becoming increasingly devious the more the public become aware of them. Also the majority of Kennel Club registrations are from puppy farmers!

People also need to be steered away from back yard breeders. Although there may often not be the same sort of welfare concerns as with puppy farmers, often these people, although well intentioned don't have a clue and do not follow good practice. Nor are they usually experienced enough to offer good after sales advice.

happygardening Sun 09-Sep-12 11:45:08

My neighbour has a Welsh puppy farmed Westie. But she actually bought him from a "local breeder" (we don't live in Wales) who was kennel club registered proudly displaying certificates on the wall. When she took him to the vet to have him checked over he knew straight away who this man was and that he had not bred him and on the transfer documentation papers it actually said he was bred by a farmer in Wales. She asked to see the bitch but was told it was being taken for a walk. They admit they were gullible and know now they should have researched more carefully but were primarily taken in by the KC certificates assuring them that this was a good breeder.
Needless to say he has significant health problems.

saintmerryweather Sun 09-Sep-12 20:51:48

yeah i understand that going to someones house it can be quite hard to see if they are a proper breeder or a byb, i dont know that i would be able to tell 100%, if they were determined to hide something, but some of the people on that link bought their pups from pet shops. there isnt really any justification for that, ever

Scuttlebutter Sun 09-Sep-12 22:00:03

I think there are two issues. People wanting a dog think they need a (pedigree) puppy and secondly, there's still a huge amount of negative myths swirling around about rescue dogs, which means that many families won't even consider them. We see this here all the time - posters come out with "They won't let families adopt", "You can't trust a rescue dog temperament", "It's all Staffies" "I can't find a pedigree dog" etc etc. All of these have been mentioned very recently.

When people do go for a puppy, they are not prepared to wait and they certainly don't do their homework. If I was spending hundreds of pounds on anything, pup or not, you can bet I'd do a bit of research first. Sadly, I also think that many people are more comfortable not thinking about where their dog is from. Anybody willing to spend even a cursory ten minutes on Google would find info and advice on responsible puppy buying yet many folks are still ignoring this - at some point, we have to recognise that they really would prefer not to know. While I have little or no sympathy with foolish people, the pup and the bitch don't have a choice.

midori1999 Sun 09-Sep-12 22:24:55

I agree with what you say Scuttle, particularly about people not wanting to wait.

I do think though that many, many people see the fact that a dog is KC registered as a sign of quality and means the breeder is a good one, or think that a breeeder being licensed is a good thing, which it often isn't as the very fact they need to be licensed means that they are breeding or capable of breeding in some volume.

One thing I will say is that any breeder who is prepared to let someone they have never met before turn up, look at puppies then pay for one and take it home that same day is not a good or responsible breeder. I always insist upon meeting people a minimum of twice before they take their puppy home and even then only if they live some distance away. I encourage people to visit as often as possible, which as they have usually been on a waiting list means I have met them at least half a dozen times before they take their pup home, often many more times than that, and it means I can get a good feel for what sort of owners they will be and it shows their level of commitment. The very fact they have been prepapred to wait months, sometimes years, is also a good sign.

Scuttlebutter Sun 09-Sep-12 23:02:51

I agree Midori, and you are exactly the sort of responsible breeder, that I wish puppy buyers would go to. One of the annoying things about puppy farmers and BYBs is that they undercut the reputable breeders too. It costs a great deal of money to look after a pregnant bitch properly and get her and pups safely through labour and pups on their way. Irresponsible breeders cut corners on diet, care, worming and so many other areas, that it's not surprising then that pups have health problems (along with their mums, very often). sad

As you probably know, regs are about to change in Wales and it's likely that a minimum of three bitches will require licensed status so many more breeders will come under the Regs. It will be interesting to see how that works out. My other concern is the recent very scary arrival of pups from Central/Eastern Europe - if the trickle turns into a flood we could be faced with all sorts of issues and problems.

Puppy farmers are very devious. It's well known on here that my dog was probably puppy farmed. I was told by a friend of a friend at the school gate that there was a puppy needing a good home. Apparently, she'd been bought the pup as a birthday present but had to go back to work after maternity leave. We were going to adopt a dog anyway, so went to look. Of course, he was an adorable 12 week old puppy, so I fell in love. I saw him in her home, and she seemed perfectly genuine. I was the one who offered her money, as she had mentioned how much he had cost to buy plus vaccinations etc. Stupid, huh? But I can only say that I thought I'd know. Anyway, we took him. He came with papers, a docking certificate (working stock), a bowl and some food. Apparently she wanted to keep his bed (never saw it) as her MIL's dog sometimes stayed. Three weeks later, I was googling 'sprockers' out of interest, and got led to Preloved. Where this very same woman was advertising a 12 week old male red sprocker pup with the same story. I felt like the biggest idiot, and posted on here half inviting a kicking for it. I didn't get a kicking, I got some great advice and support both on and off board. I suspect he was dropped off at this woman's house a matter of hours before I went to see him. There was no bed, because it wasn't his home. He had clearly never been in a home before, he was scared of everything. Now, I adore my dog and nothing would now part me from him. He had a skin infection, anal gland infection and ear infection. The anal gland problems are going to be for life. I manually express his glands weekly to ensure he doesn't keep getting infections. He has multiple allergies. I hate that I handed over a single penny to his 'breeders'. I hate to think of the conditions he was kept in before we took him, and the conditions the poor bitch he came from probably still is. I feel horribly guilty about it, and always will. We've had him for a year now, and he is part of our family come what may, but I expect he will cost us more and more money as he gets older. As Val said in her information post, he is probably heartbreak on legs.

TerraNotSoFirma Mon 10-Sep-12 12:36:33

My GSD came from a puppy farm, probably. At the time she seemed professional, saw both parents, conditions seemed good. We promised to keep in touch, we sent emails and photos but never received a reply.

She also bred red setters and various pedigree cats, years later when I was researching Siamese cats I came across a few reviews mentioning this woman, looked further into it and my dog papers were fakes.

That being said my dog is on the whole fabulous, we had a few behavioural issues whilst I was pregnant and the babies were small and healthwise she suffers from recurrent ear infections but GSD's are prone to these anyway.

If someone was looking to get a puppy, how do you know the breeder is reputable? When we got our dog, it all seemed fine.

goshandspecs Fri 14-Sep-12 10:18:11

FiveHoursSleep Fri 14-Sep-12 13:11:49

This is so sad sad
We are looking for a dog/puppy atm and it is difficult to find one especially when you have young kids.
I can see why people get hooked into buying them from petshops etc and poor breeders.
Banning puppy farms is certainly one suggestion but i'm not sure they are ever going to be able to stop poor breeders.

70isaLimitNotaTarget Fri 14-Sep-12 17:43:02

I'm not a dog person but I read through the stories in the opening link.

What I did notice was the number of people who wrote in their stories "I couldn't bear to leave him/her there"

They -in their eyes- are rescuing a dog from it's poor, neglected surroundings.
Very commendable but a bit heart rules the head.
OK, on some cases after a lot of money, time and heartache that puppy might pull through and have some quality of life.

But, the breeder has £££ in their hands.And there will be another set of paws to fill that dogs shoes.
sad and so it continues.

But, how many people could walk away?

Can I say one thing about rescues though?

I am no stranger to the doghouse, would always advise people to go to a rescue. But I looked to rehome a GSD since just after Christmas.

I am under no illusion that rescues are all staffs etc. We have a 2yo Lab who can be a bit nervy, but when he is with another dog he is a lot more confident, hence us wanting a companion for him.

We did research breeds, we previously had a Weimeraner and wanted a dog with a bit of a stubborn streak, who is loyal, needs lots of exercise and a firm hand, who would also be a bit vocal (Lab is practically a mute).

I applied to dozens of rescues, both breed specific and through links on dogsblog. Not just for GSDs either.

One breed rescue replied they would not be happy to re-home a big dog with small children - fair enough.

But the amount of e-mails and messages left on answerphones that never got back to me is staggering. I didn't want a puppy. I spent 9 months applying to any dog I thought we would be suitable for. I was happy to wait to give the right home to a dog that was right for me.

There are experienced homes out there willing to open their doors to a dog that is suitable for them, not just one that catches their eye.

By not replying to messages and e-mails the rescues are not doing themselves any favours.

Or was I just unlucky? I had a friend who was in a similar situation and she ended up going for a pedigree from a reputable breeder. But again, she would have been happy with a mutt if anyone had ever got back to her.

midori1999 Sat 15-Sep-12 13:25:38

Maybe the rescue's resources are stretched and no time to return calls? Or maybe they think if you're really interested you'll ring back?

70isa.... I am not sure I could walk away. This is why it is important to do your research beforehand and not even turn up at these places. If you speak to a 'breeder' on the phone and they don't want to grill you extensively before agreeing to put you on a waiting list or let you come and see a puppy, they are probably best avoided.

FiveHoursSleep Sat 15-Sep-12 18:30:37

Bitter and Twisted, I agree. We are looking for a dog/ puppy atm and it's become a full time job.
I've sent over 20 emails/completed computer forms and left countless messages on answer machines.
I've had two replies and one of those was saying they don't home dogs with kids under 6.

Tintingal Sun 16-Sep-12 09:20:15

FiveHoursSleep - I have a friend who socialises puppies for Four Paws rescue in Cardiff. She has a cat and two small children, which is an important part of the socialisation. It does say on their website that they don't rehome to families with children under 5, but it also says this is a general rule, and if people tick most of the boxes, they will consider it. You could try contacting them if you are at all near Cardiff.
I know she has two very sweet pups at the moment, and she rarely has staffies. Hope this helps.

goshandspecs Fri 28-Sep-12 17:29:05

Thinking of buying a dog / pup from Gumtree? Click on the following link
and scroll down until you read the sad story about Gizmo.
BEWARE as PUPS WITH PARVO are being sold in Crewe, JRs, Bichon Frise, Chis and possibly others. Advertised on Gumtree

ZippeeeeayeA Sun 21-Oct-12 17:14:40

These stories are just so sad. Baffles me why that despite all these stories some people are hell bent on buying puppys without researching properly and then they are so sad and disappointed when they end up with a very sick and poorly pup. Those idiots encourage the evil trade. Their pup might recover but what about the pups parents and the pups litter mates? It's kind of like saying sod you jack I'm alright and thats all that matters. Charming.

issey6cats Sun 21-Oct-12 19:29:51

30 years ago in the 1980s when i was showing my dogs there were articles in dogs world paper every week about welsh puppy farms i cant believe that in 2012 they still exist and people are still buying puppies from these places, i wonder if in 2042 this debate will still be going on, its about time the RSPCA and councils stepped up to the mark and actually did thier job properly and close down these huge establishments, saying that though i bought my cairn terrier from a kennells in blackpool that was a breeding and boarding kennells, i didnt see his mom (i know) and skips lived to be 15 years old and the only time he went to the vets was for neutering at six months and his yearly vacs and lived to be 15 years old i was lucky and still miss him 9 years after he went

LadyTurmoil Sun 21-Oct-12 22:06:39

there are also many rescues operating in other countries who bring dogs to the UK on a regular basis for rehoming:,,, Some of their dogs are fostered in the UK until they find a forever home. I know it's difficult because you can't visit the puppy/dog before you apply for adoption but they seem very dedicated and committed organisations who would happily talk to you about dogs they have in their care.
What about for example (being fostered in Surrey) The Mayflower Sanctuary also rehomes dogs from Cyprus and Dog Watch in the Midlands. All the above can be found on Facebook as well. I know some people say it's wrong not to pick a dog in a UK rescue but some of these dogs would definitely be poisoned or killed if they weren't taken in by these rescues. I wish councils, government etc would get their act together regarding breeders in the UK.

Lolly7 Sun 21-Oct-12 23:23:03

Thanks for interesting links Lady Turmoil.
It's not just councils, RSPCA and governments who need to get their acts together regarding breeders in UK. The consumer, the paying public need to open their eyes and ears to what goes on. The thought of this suffering continuing right through to the year 2042 because of peoples ignorance makes me feel sick. Change needs to happen now!

LadyTurmoil Mon 22-Oct-12 00:37:38

Thanks Lolly7. It is depressing, although I must admit that I didn't know ANYTHING about BYBs or large scale puppy farming until I started to get interested in rescue dogs and started reading stuff on the internet and MN! I also can't understand why the Kennel Club register breeders with such ease - isn't it in their interest to be a lot stricter in who they give registration to?

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