Food advice please!

[zombiepara]

Hiya!

So photo (hopefully attached) for payment dues!

Aaaand down to business...I'll try to be as clear as I can with it all, and not dripfeed/leave info out.. so may be a little long - apologies in advance!

ZombiePup is 11 weeks and 3 days old, was weaned onto Nature's Menu freeflow mince by breeder. She has several adult dogs and feeds them all the same - just the raw mince, no kibble, no veg etc. Looking online and on the pack for advice, Nature's Menu itself recommends that dogs are fed 60% of the meat/mince, 20% blended fruit and veg, and 20% easy to digest carbs (like brown rice, their own mixer biscuits, oats or sweet potato).

First question - as the breeder just feeds the mince to all her adult dogs, and they all look really healthy, good coats, good spirits etc, would I be wrong to follow her example, even though it directly goes against what the food manufacturer recommends?

Second question - if i go with the manufacturers over the breeder, what are the best mixers to use?

Third question - ZombiePup seems to be quite itchy; he has done since we brought him home. Got a full clear slate from the vets, so no chance of fleas or other causes of itching (to my knowledge). It's been no worse with bathing him, we comb him daily/every other day (trying to build up his tolerance to grooming)... yet he often nibbles his legs, and will happily chew on a whole paw. Pretty regularly. Thanks to targeted ads on facebook, it's come to my attention that this may be due to allergies, and that chicken is a pretty common one...
But! Out of his foods, he was weaned onto chicken and tripe, loves chicken and lamb, and really didn't enjoy his plain beef...
Any likelihood of it being an allergy over just enjoying chewing paws/suggestions on how to rule in/out allergies...

Fourth and final question - any recommendation on good raw foods that don't cost the earth?


(I did try to add 4 photos - one for each question, but MN only let me upload 3!)

[Veterinari]

Raw meat is not a complete diet. The reason the manufacturers advise that you don't feed only raw meat is because it's not a complete diet and does not meet your dog's nutritional needs. So I'd suggest using the product as the manufacturers and their nutritionists suggest unless you and your breeder are better qualified in canine nutrition, or fancy using your dog as a nutritional experiment.

Paw chewing is classic allergy behaviour - the way to test this is to try him on a hypoallergenic diet for at least 8 weeks - no other treats and ideally only and extruded protein diet like Hills z/d, under veterinary supervision (so not a raw diet)

Most vets advise not feeding raw food as the risks include dogs becoming chronic shedders of salmonella, campylobacter etc so there are public health risks associated with it. Plus the challenges of getting people to actually meet the dog's nutritional needs.

[Itllbeaninterestingchristmas]

I’ll probably be shot down here but all our dogs have been on either a mix of chappie, I think it’s fish and rice based, and super dog biscuits and when they get really old bakers soft biscuits. They’ve all lived long lives. So I’d just pick a biscuit type food and see how he goes on it
For the veg you can just buy bags of frozen mixed veg and cook that for him. Our prime to getting fat lab loved it and it filled her up. She also liked eating raw carrot as chew. The current ones are too faddy for that.
Does he have dandruff that’s causing him to itch? If so add some veg oil to his diet about a desert spoon a day and it should clear up.

[zombiepara]

@Veterinari this is exactly why I was asking, I don't profess to be an expert, and dog diets have changed a lot since I last had one, especially as I had no say in the diet of our last one (too young).

I certainly am more inclined to follow the manufacturers instructions, but again, as a new owner (I'll call myself new as this is my first dog) I was certainly relying on the breeder for advice. He's been with us since he was 9 weeks, and I only want what is best for him.

I will look into hypoallergenic diets - I hate the thought that he is uncomfortable.

[Veterinari]

[quote zombiepara]@Veterinari this is exactly why I was asking, I don't profess to be an expert, and dog diets have changed a lot since I last had one, especially as I had no say in the diet of our last one (too young).

I certainly am more inclined to follow the manufacturers instructions, but again, as a new owner (I'll call myself new as this is my first dog) I was certainly relying on the breeder for advice. He's been with us since he was 9 weeks, and I only want what is best for him.

I will look into hypoallergenic diets - I hate the thought that he is uncomfortable.[/quote]
Fair enough - I'm probably overly cynical. In my experience there are good breeders out there but there's also a cult of breeders who like to generate mystique and 'expertise' over totally random things - many of which are often contrary to scientific evidence. Breeders are generally just people who've kept dogs alive and reproductive - it's not a high bar - especially if they're breeders who are producing non-health tested crossbreeds for a commercial market.

[zombiepara]

@Itllbeaninterestingchristmas haven't seen any dandruff on him, and with black patches I'd expect it to be an obvious thing, especially when grooming him..? Obviously no expert on it..

Cool, i will grab some mixed veg - are there any better sorts of veg than others?

[zombiepara]

@Veterinari not a crossbreed so no concerns on that front.

Am happy with accepting advice - I just want what is best for him, and if thats a change in diets then it's a change in diet!

[Veterinari]

No he's a parti isn't he? That reply wasn't necessarily specific to you - just a general breeder-rant based experience - apologies for the derail

[Veterinari]

He definitely looks like he has 100% poodle hooter anyway - they're pretty distinctive

[Wolfiefan]

Haha at poodle hooter.
We do feed raw. But it’s not for everyone. My dog has lots of allergies and we avoid veg. Chicken is a very common allergen. Like a PP said you would need to strictly feed a particular diet to check. No treats etc.
We were told by a dermatologist we could do an exclusion diet on raw. So a protein she had never had before like rabbit or pork. Just one. (I can’t remember for how many weeks.) But you do have to balance the diet carefully.
Nutritional info is hard. Our vets tend to plug what they sell and breeders often think their way is the only way!!
There’s a site called (I think) all about dog food that lets you compare them.
Also think about contact allergies. E.g. where pup walks. Any carpet cleaner used or smelly stuff to wash doggy bedding.
Good luck.

[zombiepara]

@Veterinari he is indeed a parti! And yes to the poodle hooter 😂😂 love that term - will be adopting it myself!
(Much to DP's disgust-he is not a fan of how pointy poodle noses are.... 🙄 took months to get his to see it's mostly the haircut.. and needless to say he'll be in a doodle cut when he's a bit older..)

Aha don't apologise for the derail - it annoys me that people breed for muchos 💵 to fit the fads

[Ginger153]

Hello, I like RaaW. It's raw, affordable and a complete food as it has veg etc mixed in. It's been a real success for my slightly fussy hound and I got frustrated cooking human and dog food! It's frozen and available in Morrisons or direct delivery. Your pup is lovely! Good luck.

[zombiepara]

@Wolfiefan thank you - i will have to do some serious research into it all, and find what's best for him..

Don't think it is our washing bits as he's only just had his bed washed and it's no worse today than yesterday (washed it yesterday before bedtime for him last night)

[Veterinari]

[quote zombiepara]@Veterinari he is indeed a parti! And yes to the poodle hooter 😂😂 love that term - will be adopting it myself!
(Much to DP's disgust-he is not a fan of how pointy poodle noses are.... 🙄 took months to get his to see it's mostly the haircut.. and needless to say he'll be in a doodle cut when he's a bit older..)

Aha don't apologise for the derail - it annoys me that people breed for muchos 💵 to fit the fads [/quote]
Poodle hooters are the best bit!
I love them - one of my favourite breeds. Utterly delicious dogs.

[zombiepara]

@Ginger153 thank you! I'll check it out.. and bear it in mind along with looking at allergy bits...

[WillBillHal]

We have a Parti standard - don't see many around. Hope you can sort out his food - ours is just a fussy thing who isn't really interested in his food at all!

[Veterinari]

Also apologies but just to correct @Wolfiefans advice below - it is entirely possible for dogs to develop allergies to novel protein sources like rabbit. It's less usual but can certainly happen with exposure - that's how any allergy develops. Which is why vets will recommend hydrolysed protein diets - allergies do not develop from these as the protein molecules are broken down.

It's also worth considering contact allergies - floor/carpet cleaning products, laundry powder etc. Ears are often sensitive with good/generalised allergies. Feet alone suggests it could be a contact or a food allergy

[Wolfiefan]

Sorry @Veterinari you’re absolutely right that dogs can develop an allergy to a novel protein. It’s just what was suggested to us by a specialist veterinary dermatologist. My issues with the hydrolysed stuff were many though.
Wolfiedog1 is a sensitive soul who’s picky about food. Kibble is not something she would eat! She has multiple allergies and I also didn’t want upset tummy on wolfhound scale. It also left me no treats other than her food to use.
Here is where I admit I have a dehydrator so I can produce single protein treats.
But then mine was an extreme case. Months of foot chewing so that I couldn’t take my eyes off her without her damaging herself and another vet visit. I was so desperate that if the suggested solution was freshly killed Welsh dragon I would have tried to find some.

[zombiepara]

Ahh I love poodles - my last dog was a solid standard and i didn't realise that partis existed! Ever since I've seen them I've loved them..
(I'm hoping that by keeping a shaved nose for his puppy cuts that DP will come round to it..)

@WillBillHal
Ours certainly isn't fussy, except with plain beef, but was happy to have it mixed with his other meat..


In terms of itching, it seems to be legs and feet, neck.. ears seem to be okay, even if a bit hypnotic when we rub them -he leans on us while we rub his ear, and if we take our hands down to the floor while rubbing, he collapses with us 😅

Floor wise.. it is just a hoover, no smelly powder, and patio/grass outside..

Oh @Wolfiefan I'm sort to hear of your pup's troubles! Luckily we haven't hit him hurting himself, as it isn't all the time... he has little patches through the day..

[Barryisland]

Raw food can give everything a dog needs and is the best food for dogs in my opinion.
Have a look at the facebook page called BARF UK.
They are a very knowledgeable group. Very friendly and great with advice.
They give starter guides and can advice regarding different brands of dog food. They will also tell you why fruit veg and rice etc are definitely NOT needed in a dogs diet.
Hope it helps !

[Veterinari]

www.veterinarypracticenews.com/debating-raw-diets-january-2019/

[Sitdowncupoftea]

@Itllbeaninterestingchristmas

I’ll probably be shot down here but all our dogs have been on either a mix of chappie, I think it’s fish and rice based, and super dog biscuits and when they get really old bakers soft biscuits. They’ve all lived long lives. So I’d just pick a biscuit type food and see how he goes on it
For the veg you can just buy bags of frozen mixed veg and cook that for him. Our prime to getting fat lab loved it and it filled her up. She also liked eating raw carrot as chew. The current ones are too faddy for that.
Does he have dandruff that’s causing him to itch? If so add some veg oil to his diet about a desert spoon a day and it should clear up.

I won't shoot you down. One of my dogs is on chappie due to intolerances. The vet recommended chappie it worked. I cant recommended chappie enough if your dog is intolerant.

[ruthieness]

One other possibility is demodex mites which pups can catch from their mother and pups do not yet have the maturity to control them. I would suggest that you use a vet strength flea mite and tick control tablets as it is very easy to mix the symptoms of allergy and mites.

[Dogsarebetterthanpeople]

I'm hoping that by keeping a shaved nose for his puppy cuts that DP will come round to it
😱
That shaved face is why an awful lot of people won’t entertain a poodle and buy mixes...

[zombiepara]

@ruthieness he has had his flea/tick and worm meds prescribed from the vets, so hopefully not those! Will keep it in mind though going forwards..

[zombiepara]

@Dogsarebetterthanpeople nothing wrong with a shaved poodle nose!

Long term game is to grow it, but I do love the poodle nose, especially as he is changing black to silver and we can see that at the moment!