Derbyshire dog owners anyone heard of four lanes farm border collies?

(26 Posts)
whenwillthemadnessend Sun 23-Aug-20 19:18:48

Hello. Looking for a border collie and cane across this breeder. I'm so terrified of making a wrong choice in this minefield of puppy farming and dodgy sites.
It's four lane farm Derbyshire and they also do an agility club looking at websites

Has anyone any experience please?
'Thank you

OP’s posts: |
RiaRoth Sun 23-Aug-20 20:29:09

I thought they had sold the farm and retired from breeding I know it was on the market.

whenwillthemadnessend Sun 23-Aug-20 21:32:48

Thanks for reply.
Definitely still advertising pups.

I'm not worried if they are thinking of retiring. Just want to know if I would be in good hands getting a pup from them.

OP’s posts: |
RiaRoth Sun 23-Aug-20 21:59:40

I wouldn't get a puppy from them

nancyjuice7 Sun 23-Aug-20 22:11:46

https://www.equestrianproperty4sale.com/OCUImages/MEDqSnRQ9A6KdoSHk8p2BtnkRfviBbglpYX0uyoDuTExt2Dcrne4hipAWTfoJr00_original.pdf

Considering their farm is for sale I would not buy from anyone advertising to be from there. Also if the place you visit dosnt match the above then they are using the retired breeders details.

Overall sounds very dodgy to me and I would steer well clear

whenwillthemadnessend Sun 23-Aug-20 22:22:20

Ria please can you elaborate? Pm me if you prefer?

OP’s posts: |
whenwillthemadnessend Sun 23-Aug-20 22:39:45

Looked at the farm plan and the amount of kennels!! Feels all wrong. Thanks for the link.

OP’s posts: |

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Borderstotheleftofme Mon 24-Aug-20 00:41:15

They pretty much always have puppies for sale on pets4homes.
I’d avoid like the plague.
Partly because they are clearly show type and I feel strongly working breeds should be retained as working dogs (I have a working collie) but mostly because no decent breeder would have so many litters constantly for sale

whenwillthemadnessend Mon 24-Aug-20 07:00:20

Thanks for all the responses. I think we will look elsewhere. If anyone dies have a good breeder I'd be grateful for details.

OP’s posts: |
sashh Mon 24-Aug-20 07:22:05

Does it have to be a puppy?

I'd look at rescues first, and then look at the KC website.

I believe, but I can't give evidence, that people give up boarder collies because they are not what people expect ie lots of energy and easily bored. @Borderstotheleftofme will be able to tell you more.

protectingprelovedbordercollies.org.uk/dogs-for-rehoming I like the look of Joe - not yet 2 and 'too soft' to work sheep.

minnieok Mon 24-Aug-20 07:26:53

I suggest you make enquires via farming communities. Working farms will breed their dogs and keep one or two pups. Most wont have pedigree papers but they are beautiful well loved pups. We got ours word of mouth.

fivedogstofeed Mon 24-Aug-20 07:35:50

Collies are the most common breed in rescue in Ireland. Many go to the UK as there are not enough homes here.
Dogs Trust, Valgrays, Heathlands, Border Collie Spot, Border Collie Trust and others have an endless supply, including puppies.

Moondust001 Mon 24-Aug-20 07:48:03

I'd look at rescues first, and then look at the KC website

I wouldn't trust the KC with anything. The main reason there are so many breed problems are because of their ridiculous exactitude as to what a dog looks like. Simply because a breeder is KC registered doesn't tell you much. For Border Collies I would much rather trust - if you want one with "papers" - the International Sheep Dog Society, which registers based on demonstrable intelligence and breeding based on intelligence.

But I would also say that if you want a Broder Collie puppy - and whilst rescue is good, that is not the choice everyone wants to make, so I respect that - then I would also look for small breeders and farms. Although mine is ISDS registered he came from a farm, from working parents. I have had both rescues and puppies, but I would never go to a "big breeder". They are just a legitimised puppy farm.

Borderstotheleftofme Mon 24-Aug-20 10:06:08

I believe, but I can't give evidence, that people give up boarder collies because they are not what people expect ie lots of energy and easily bored
Imo, there are three main issues.

Firstly in all of the herding breeds there is a very real problem with nervousness/ being excessively high strung.
Hence why it is SO important to meet the parents and make sure they have a nice temperament.
Collies are naturally often aloof but any parents showing nervousness rather then just aloofness/disinterested I would avoid buying puppies from them.
A poorly bred border collie that has no ‘off switch’, that is so highly strung it needs careful management because it can’t cope with loud noises, new places etc is a hard dog to handle.

I think the second issue is that a lot of people expect all dogs to be the same.
They expect that a border collie puppy will grow up to be the same as say a golden retriever or a cockerpoo and actually, although they are wonderful dogs and can make lovely pets the temperament can be quite different to what you expect in a stereotypical family pet.
For example, at maturity a lot of collies are pretty aloof, they are bonded to their family and don’t really want to socialise with other people or dogs.
Very different to the stereotypical ‘everybody is my best mate’ attitude in say, most retrievers which I would say is what most people expect in a family pet.
There is of course also that herding instinct, which if isn’t managed correctly can cause problems

And I think thirdly, there is a great deal of misinformation about the breed.
I really disagree with the whole collies need huge amounts of exercise and mental stimulation attitude.
Imo, collies thrive in a peaceful, calm environment and do best with calm activity that works their brain and makes them think.
Like herding.
High adrenaline sports like agility and fly ball are a world away from ‘calm, brain engaging’ activity and I think they make a lot of collies harder to handle.
My own collie given lots of high adrenaline exercise and training/mental stimulation becomes anxious, whiny and unable to settle.
I think the response of a lot of people in that situation would be to think the dog is bored and must need more stimulation but actually, given way way less training/mental stimulation and nice calm, peaceful walks and my collie becomes the calmest, laziest dog.
Happy to sleep all day in the house but equally always happy to go out for a walk and run about.

I suggest you make enquires via farming communities. Working farms will breed their dogs and keep one or two pups. Most wont have pedigree papers but they are beautiful well loved pups. We got ours word of mouth
I agree.
People can be quite unpleasant about working lines but imo they generally speaking are more stable, well balanced dogs and make lovely pets.
Though of course, you should still be very careful to check you like the parents temperament because there absolutely will be very poor temperament individuals being bred out there, but I’d always go for a genuine working line over a Kennel club ‘show lines’ any day.

I wouldn't trust the KC with anything. The main reason there are so many breed problems are because of their ridiculous exactitude as to what a dog looks like. Simply because a breeder is KC registered doesn't tell you much. For Border Collies I would much rather trust - if you want one with "papers" - the International Sheep Dog Society, which registers based on demonstrable intelligence and breeding based on intelligence
This a million times over!
Border collies are technically only known as border collies if registered with the Kennel Club 🤢 or the ISDS (international sheepdog society)
An unregistered collie like mine is technically speaking a ‘working sheepdog’ but she is recognisably a border collie in looks and temperament and a lovely, lovely dog.

SeaMayweed Mon 24-Aug-20 10:26:40

@Borderstotheleftofme
Great post.

RiaRoth Mon 24-Aug-20 10:32:54

I would question that collies think herding is a relaxing activity!

I agree in parts with Borderstotheleftofme but also think that collies do love a bit of action and to prevent it all is sad. What owners need to do is to teach the collies to relax. This is pretty straight forward and the gives the collie a better balance in life. A collie will go all day every day but chucking in some enforced rest and relaxation is essential.

Not many pet owners are able to have herding as an activity for their collies so do need to find alternative things for them to do.

A happy collie is a collie with a job not a collie that is beaten into boredom. * becomes the calmest, laziest dog* I find this quite depressing tbh. A collie should not be lazy they are happy doing thigs. It does not all need to be high energy but they do need to be doing something .

Borderstotheleftofme Mon 24-Aug-20 10:44:08

I would question that collies think herding is a relaxing activity!
I don’t think I actually said that?
I think I termed it a ‘calm’ activity, as in something that requires a great deal of thought and self control.

I agree in parts with Borderstotheleftofme but also think that collies do love a bit of action and to prevent it all is sad. What owners need to do is to teach the collies to relax
I don’t feel that lots of action is necessarily good for them, im sorry I just don’t agree but I absolutely agree that collies should be taught a ‘settle’ yes.

This is pretty straight forward and the gives the collie a better balance in life. A collie will go all day every day but chucking in some enforced rest and relaxation is essential
Yes.

Not many pet owners are able to have herding as an activity for their collies so do need to find alternative things for them to do
I agree but I honestly don’t think there is anything that compares to herding.
Except maybe treball but I’ve not found anywhere in the uk that does it.

A happy collie is a collie with a job not a collie that is beaten into boredom. becomes the calmest, laziest dog* I find this quite depressing tbh*
Maybe if you had seen what she was like before (with the adviser mental stimulation/brain games, exercise) - relentless pacing, whining, jumping at every little noise, never able to relax you’d feel differently.
She is a FAR happier dog with less excitement.

A collie should not be lazy they are happy doing thigs. It does not all need to be high energy but they do need to be doing something
She’s only lazy in the house.
She’s happy to ‘go all day’ outside but once back inside she sleeps

RiaRoth Mon 24-Aug-20 11:02:53

But why get a collie if you want a lazy quiet dog?- get a grehound!

I want my dogs to want to do things - that is why I have collies smile

She is a FAR happier dog with less excitement I have also had the hyper collies and have worked on relaxation and stimulation that is a happy collie.

Sorry I did misquote you but I stand by herding not be a Calming experience in the mind of a collie. It is like being on crack for most of them smile

Borderstotheleftofme Mon 24-Aug-20 11:23:17

But why get a collie if you want a lazy quiet dog?- get a greyhound
I think I am perhaps not being clear.
I don’t consider collies to be ‘quiet, lazy’ dogs like a bulldog or greyhound, yes they absolutely can go all day, yes they are largely untireable

I wouldn’t want people to think my collie is barely exercised or anything because that’s not the case.
It’s not unusual in the summer months for us to literally be out all day from early morning to early evening.

What I was trying to say, maybe not very well! was that a lot of people think they need to be kept busy all the time, given hours and hours of exercise then multiple hours of brain games in top and in my opinion, that can cause them to get antsy, hyperactive, demanding, unable to relax etc.
It is my personal view that they do best with a calm peaceful environment with bursts of ‘busyness’.
Eg doing their work around the farm then lazing around until they are next required.
Or going for their walk or doing some of other form of ‘work’ then lazing around until next required.

It’s not a huge amount of dogs granted but I don’t know any collies (working lines) who are given vast amounts of things to do to the level most people think they need and we all have nice, calm, well behaved dogs.

Sorry I did misquote you but I stand by herding not be a Calming experience in the mind of a collie. It is like being on crack for most of them smile
Maybe something that requires a great deal of thinking and self control would be a better description?
I don’t think it’s at all comparable to things like say, flyball ir agility which are recommended as substitute.
Things like search and rescue or nose work would be closer to an alternative imo.
Though I really don’t think any activity compares really.,

whenwillthemadnessend Mon 24-Aug-20 14:28:24

Borderstothe left. Your post is brilliant and very reassuring. I want to end up with a calm pet but also one that is equally happy running with us or on long walks.

Its really terrifying and such a minefield navigating through the ads.

Your advise is very useful.

OP’s posts: |
Borderstotheleftofme Mon 24-Aug-20 15:20:32

Thank you.

I will just clarify again, I was not suggesting in my posts that they are a super lazy, very low exercise breed, just that imo they don’t need the extreme amounts of exercise and training often quoted.

The main thing i would say is to check the temperament of the parents, the puppies will likely grow up with similar temperament.
Aloof/disinterested is okay but nervous or aggressive is not.

I completely agree with riaroth that teaching a ‘settle’ command is important and should be practised regularly in lots of different locations.

And I would think about how you will handle the herding instinct aswell.
It’s usually present from about 8 weeks.

RiaRoth Mon 24-Aug-20 15:35:41

smile re the herding instinct. You have a normal fluffly puppy that gambles along happily, following you like a duck. Then literally overnight
the head goes down, the shoulders go up and the slow slow step of the herdy puppy appears - from the on you are doomed grin

sashh Wed 26-Aug-20 03:32:04

Then literally overnight the head goes down, the shoulders go up and the slow slow step of the herdy puppy appears - from the on you are doomed

LOL I visited someone looking after a border collie while its family were away, it didn't like people being in different rooms and would try to round us up into one room.

MonChoufleur123 Sun 30-Aug-20 21:05:43

Really interesting thread thank you.
We have a rescue collie (who I suspect is also part lurcher). A big learning curve for us was reducing activity especially in the evening and teaching him to relax.
We concentrate on bursts of very intense activity (eg an hour herding his football in the park in the morning) then he will take himself off and sleep for hours and be happy with a 30 minute potter down the lane late afternoon. As he has got older he's become a lot more relaxed but it has been a huge amount of work. We got him at 8 months old.

Bythesea315 Wed 30-Sep-20 23:23:51

Sorry I'm late but I got my puppy from here and he is wonderful they have kennels because they also board dogs
They do bread collies but that's what breeders do but all are looked after and the mothers are found homes once they have had 2/3 litters at most
Our dog is perfectly healthy very very well behaved and we met mum who was beautiful
I have no regrets and there are far worse places to get a puppy from

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