Article from experienced dog trainer re doodles

(13 Posts)
RiaRoth Sat 22-Aug-20 08:50:17

I love little doodles and I cannot lie
You other trainers can't deny
When purpose bred mixes walk in with their itty bitty faces
You secretly hope they fill up all your training spaces
Hello my name is Amy. I am a professional dog trainer, bite sport malinois handler and I ❤ doodles. Fight me.
<rant warning>
Despite what all the internet experts on instafaceyspace claim there ARE, in fact, ethical and responsible doodle breeders. They health test their dogs, follow their puppies' progress and care about the quality of the dogs in their programs.
For very backyard irresponsible doodle breeder I guarantee you there are 10 irresponsible backyard "pitbull" and GSD breeders. Any guesses which are filling up shelters?
I'd much rather my average pet client shell out $4500 on one of these doodles than a German Shepherd 🤷🏽‍♀️

Sorry but its true. I love malinois and German Shepherds, I've trained so many I cant even begin to count but let's be real, the average pet home is not equipped to live with a GSD. They want a dog they can take to their kid's baseball games and cafés and the dog park and not have to worry about it. I spend so much of my time educating owners. "No I'm sorry you bought a working line GSD, you will never be able to do X, Y or Z with it".

There are a whole lot of purebred breeders that are selling high energy working breeds to pet homes. As a trainer that is way more frustrating and disheartening than any of this doodle stuff. Most of the doodles are pretty cool and make awesome pets. Sure, there are some that aren't great and even some aggression issues but nothing like the issues we get when a working line GSD is placed in a pet home. Honestly I see a lot more behavior cases from golden retrievers (food aggression much) and standard poodles (breeding for the show ring is ruining this awesome breed imho) than I ever do in doodles. And I see A LOT of doodles.

I honestly cant understand the outrage from the "working dog" community over pet people going out and buying dogs that are appropriate for their homes. I would think we would be rejoicing! They're leaving our working dogs alone! 🥳🎉💃
Or do you just not think that non-working dog homes should own dogs? Or do you think these pet homes should get on one of those 5 year long waiting lists for one of the rare "doodle like" breeds. Genetic bottle neck much?

In last several months I've had to call two doodle breeders to report some less than desirable behavior I had seen in dogs from their programs (one was aggression one was anxiety/fear; weird temperaments pop up in every breed from time to time). Both of those breeders were extremely receptive and were seriously interested in my assessment. Both breeders also took steps to rectify the situation. The breeder of the aggressive doodle immediately called every puppy owner from that breeding to check in on them and also offered the family of the dog in question a FREE puppy from any of her future breedings.

You know what happened last time I called a "responsible" GSD breeder about a serious temperament issue I was seeing in their dog?

They immediately blamed the owner, the training, the food, literally everything except a possible genetic temperament flaw in a dog they had produced. Another trainer colleague of mine Tierney Lynne Silver-Goeden had a serious issue with dog aggression in one of her client dogs. She called the breeder to tell her about the issue and find out what steps the owner would need to do to send the dog back. That breeder claimed that dog reactivity didn't happen in her line of GSD (😳😂😂😂), blamed the owner and refused to take the dog back. These weren't backyard GSD breeders, they were big name "responsible breeders".

I get it. You love purebreds. (Me too btw) Awesome! Doodles aren't taking away from your purebreds. In fact, I would argue they are preserving the quality of our purebreds by reducing the watering down of our purpose bred dogs for the pet market."

OP’s posts: |
Ireallymustgotobed Sat 22-Aug-20 08:57:33

I am shocked at people paying thousands for any dog (or cat) when we have rescue organisations full of lovely animals in need of homes. Stamping out irresponsible breeding of any kind is important, but that won’t happen while people are willing to spend this amount on dogs, especially when they are not willing to spend time and effort in training the dog. My rescue staffie is the best family dog I could ever wish for.

Borderstotheleftofme Sat 22-Aug-20 13:39:06

I don’t like that article at all.

‘Bad’ breeders exist everywhere and in every breed.

Where GSDs are concerned the only ‘normal’ ones I’ve met have been working lines.
That is not of course to say that all working lines are great, there will be dreadful working GSD breeders without a doubt but I’d sooner go for a working GSD than a pet/show line any day.

And it’s not just GSD, I find the majority of (show) cocker spaniels to be beyond vile.
I have yet to meet a working cocker with dodgy temperament.
That’s not to say they don’t exist but again, I wouldn’t take on a show cocker if you paid me but I’d happily buy a worker.

I have a working lines collie and she and all the other working lines collies I know are lovely dogs.

I can’t stand the misinformation that surrounds working lines!
All these people spouting things as ‘fact’ like ‘they make bad pets’, ‘they need hours and hours of exercise and mental stimulation’, ‘they can only live in working homes’ etc yet none have ever had a working line!
It’s purely opinion they have heard or read presented as fact.

On doodles specifically, they are popular here and I have seen enough with aggression problems or neurotic, hyperactive temperaments to never want one myself.

Kathers92 Sat 22-Aug-20 13:50:15

I agree completely.

I have a Rottweiler and a miniature labradoodle.
Both brilliant dogs however the doodle has been 1000% easier.

The Rottweiler went to classes every week for over a year working on advanced obedience and socialisation. The doodle has mainly sat on the sofa sleeping and occasionally sitting for a treat and is just as sociable and friendly.

I agree most people don’t want to put the level of work required for a working dog into a family pet and with a doodle usually don’t have to. Not to mention he is cute as a button 😇

RunningFromInsanity Sat 22-Aug-20 13:57:56

I’m a massive doodle fan, have 2 goldendoodles myself.
There’s a reason cockerpoos are so popular, they make great little family pets.

They’ve been a godsend for those with allergies or don’t want hair all over their house.

Yes, because they have cocker in them they need careful training to avoid resource guarding but that’s not a doodle problem.

MN hates doodles. I have been fighting against it for years and years on here.

All breeds have issues, all breeds have shitty breeders.
When GSDs were popular you had BYB. When GoTs made huskies popular you had BYB.
BYB are not specific to doodles.
And the most popular breeds in puppy farms are French bulldogs at the moment.

Doodle crosses have not harmed the dog world. In the near future they will be recognised as their own breed, with breed standards. Most pedigree breeds are a mixture of existing breeds. It’s called evolution.

Bergerdog Sat 22-Aug-20 15:27:41

I like doodles however I don’t understand what’s wrong with the purebred breeds that required doodles to be made in the first place?

What’s wrong with a purebred poodle in a teddy cut, Maltese, Bedlington, Wheaton, schnauzer, havanese. The list is endless, they all look very similar and are hypoallergenic.

For example Portuguese Water Dogs not cut in a stupid fashion look exactly like a doodle. I just don’t get it... Why do people buy a cross with probably no health testing (in general- I know there’s the odd one but most poo breeders don’t) For more money than what a registered pedigree would be?
There’s no guarantee what your getting either because you could get more poodle:spaniel ratio etc. I’ve seen cockerpoos from different litters look entirely different from eachother. My friends labradoodle was meant to be a mini and is about 40kgs grin wouldn’t have happened with a reg breed.

I’ve also worked with a lot of cockerpoos with temperament issues, nervousness being the main one. Perhaps the purchasers didn’t see the temperament of the bitch or sire before committing? With a pedigree you can usually find relatives all over the UK which gives you a better idea what sort of temperament your committing to live with for the next 10+ years.

I don’t have anything against cross breeds btw- I have rescued crosses already just wouldn’t pay money without the health tests and results to back up the cost. I think we should be supporting the breeding of registered breeds from ethical breeders who breed to improve and preserve the breed itself rather than for £££

tabulahrasa Sat 22-Aug-20 16:15:14

I have no issue with doodles, I like poodles, I like the breeds they’re crossed with, I’ve owned rescue dogs where I have absolutely no clue whatsoever what breeds were in there - I like dogs.

Which is why I’ll often comment on threads from people considering a doodle.

Because finding a good, ethical, responsible breeder of any kind of dog is really really hard - with doodles, the odds are even more stacked against you.

People say there are good, ethical, responsible doodle breeders... I kind of have to just trust them on that, because I’ve never tried to buy one, but, I’ve never come across one either...

Lots and lots of people will absolutely be lucky and have great, healthy dogs - but some aren’t so lucky and me posting is usually about how they can improve the odds of being lucky.

But it’s not because I dislike doodles.


sallyshirt Sat 22-Aug-20 16:16:19

I have a rescue (street dog from abroad) who cost me £300 in transport and vaccination/passport fees.

She's pretty like a doodle and doesn't shed at all. Totally pot luck about the shedding, but it goes to show you don't have to drop ££££ into puppy farmed dogs.

Live ethically.

vanillandhoney Sat 22-Aug-20 17:08:28

I've never met an unpleasant doodle. They've all been lovely dogs with good temperaments. But the same goes for poodles, cocker spaniels, labradors and the other dogs that go into making these "doodle" dogs.

I guess I just don't understand why you would pick a type of dog with no health tests (I know some breeders test, but it's very rare) and no real breed standard when you can get a pure-bred poodle or cocker for less money and from a better background.

Exilecardigan Sun 23-Aug-20 16:50:53

I have a cockerpoo and he has a lovely temperament. I got him because I was told/researched that they didn’t shed, good with children, medium size so suited my house, loving and good natured and doesn’t need tons of exercise.

So far he is working out really well and has met all the above expectations. We kind of disregarded the separation anxiety which was stupid as he has it badly but luckily we have lots of family who are happy to take him and enough money to pay for whatever daycare or dog sitting he needs. We only paid £380 for him pre covid so I think prices have really inflated since then so you don’t need to drop much more on them.

However to answer the question why I didn’t just get one of the two breeds. Well it’s as when I researched dogs with the above qualities it was all doodles coming up not poodles themselves. So I hadn’t even thought about getting a poodle and only thought of them as the show dog silly looking cut dogs. Cocker spaniels I was told shed so that was a no go. I would probably consider a poodle if I was getting another dog but also as my experience with the cockerpoo has been so positive I would consider one of them too. What would tip the scales would be whether the separation anxiety is also part of the poodle.

tabulahrasa Sun 23-Aug-20 17:02:39

“What would tip the scales would be whether the separation anxiety is also part of the poodle.”

It’s a fairly common issue in both breeds, which is why it’s so common in crosses, a mix of indiscriminate breeding and traits can almost double up instead of mixing.

vanillandhoney Sun 23-Aug-20 17:07:56

What would tip the scales would be whether the separation anxiety is also part of the poodle

Both cockers and poodles are prone to separation anxiety.

Exilecardigan Sun 23-Aug-20 18:14:29

@vanillandhoney ok I’m screwed then 😂 will have to keep shelling out for daycare even if I went poodle then.

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