Two litter mates...?

[WomxxnNoCry]

We are getting a puppy in 2 weeks. A lovely miniature poodle. Feel quite prepared and ready for the onslaught. Know it's going to be tough.
We have now been offered a littermate also. I've been reading about littermate syndrome and thinking this should mean "no". However, then I read about positive examples of sibling dogs staying together and waver. They are a male and a female. What do you think? Thank you in advance.

[WomxxnNoCry]

Chris Packham has sibling miniature poodles. But then, he's a professional animal person...

[CappyCapCap]

Firstly you need a plan about when you are spaying. Lots of vets say after the first season.

Can you keep them apart, for potentially a few weeks, while the female has her season and then waits for the OP?

Secondly, litter mate syndrome isnt a guarantee. There are things you can do to reduce the chances of it. Train severely, walk separately etc. But it's a lot of work. Do you have time to do it twice?

Lots of decent breeders wont sell outer mates, because people invariably dont do ten separation and then a year down the line, if the dogs become nasty to eachother it's the breeder they come back to.

I know people who it's worked well for and people who it hasnt worked well for

Why has the breeder all of a sudden got an extra pup available?

[BiteyShark]

No way on earth would I ever take two puppies. Honestly just look at the puppy survival threads and times them by 3 for the amount of effort you would need for two puppies. You would need to do everything with them and mostly separately so they bonded and trained with you.

Yes you will get the odd person who pops along and tells you they have litter mates and no issues whatever but I have seen littermates arrive at training classes and the owners were struggling with them as they just focused on each other and not the owner. The advice is to separate and train which honestly having gone through the puppy and teenage period I would have cracked trying to do that with two on their own.

[StillMedusa]

I wouldn't. Not worth the risk especially right now. The puppies will have to be walked and trained and kept separate (which kind of defeats the 'ah so cute' factor of two...and if one of you is sick, or you are all ill and in isolation?

[WomxxnNoCry]

Thank you, @CappyCapCap, @BiteyShark and @StillMedusa.
This is basically confirming what I suspected. It would be pretty impossible to do it right during social distancing if nothing else. I'll say no thank you, Chris Packham or no Chris Packham....
Thank you again

[Wolfiefan]

I know someone who did this but she has a farm. Lots of space inside and out. Two adults in the property. She walked and trained them separately for the first year. It was very hard work.
I wouldn’t.
The only time I would consider it if two adults lived together and each person took responsibility for one puppy. Playing, training, toilet training etc.
TBH one puppy is quite enough hard work.

[WomxxnNoCry]

Thanks @Wolfiefan. Yes, while there are two of us adults, the next few months are likely to be challenge enough, aren't they? We will stick to one.

[WomxxnNoCry]

@CappyCapCap, I've been reading your post again. Thank you - very useful. It's a large litter (verified - proper breeder), and not all have gone (due to coronavirus situation). So not a new addition or anything. To hear what it would take to prevent littermate syndrome is especially useful. Will stick to one!

[Wolfiefan]

Good luck OP. My pup is coming up to 23 weeks old this weekend.
Apologies if I’m teaching you to suck eggs but if you’re new to this and can’t get out to training join Dog Training Advice and Support on FB. Brilliant files on first night home and toilet training and a whole load of other things.

[NymphadoraBonks]

You could cross the road without looking and it could turn out ok but why would you?

It’s a bad idea. In fact I’d bet money that the breeder is a bit shit because no responsible breeder would agree to homing littermates together unless it was to a VERY knowledgeable home where the puppies can be raised by a an adult each.

Get a puppy, train it, socialise it and then in 18 months or so if you still want another dog get another.

Just stupid to take the chance of having to rehome one down the line.

[EwwSprouts]

Can I crash the thread? There are two 7 year old lab brothers need adopting from rescue. I'm seriously tempted. We are family with a teen, big garden and had a lab for 15 years.

Thoughts please?

[WomxxnNoCry]

Thanks @Wolfiefan. I'll look online where you say. My partner and I are both from "dog homes"(!), so have had dogs in our families of origin, but never had our own puppy from scratch... so yes, we are new to this stage. Got a good few books, and had booked into training classes, but obviously these may not now go ahead...
Thanks again for the advice - appreciate it!

[WomxxnNoCry]

@EwwSprouts that's tricky, isn't it? It sounds lovely... is there any info on how they are with other dogs (and humans generally)? There are some tick-lists on line for spotting "littermate syndrome". Not that having this would make it impossible to adopt, necessarily... but harder

[WomxxnNoCry]

@NymphadoraBonks, I've now told the breeder we can't take 2. Thank you. I agree with you really.

[Wolfiefan]

I’ve recently got my second. My first was really hard. Separation anxiety and really nervous about lots of things! That group really worked. The first night advice and toilet training files are awesome.

[GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman]

There are two 7 year old lab brothers need adopting from rescue
What are they like? Are they sane, with decent recall and good on the lead? Or are they obsessed with each other and just a pair of jolly thugs who will bounce on everyone else in the park? If they have issues, what is your training experience?

This is a really interesting blog post by a very experienced breeder and trainer who kept two puppies on, one that she planned to keep permanently, and one that she was trying to home appropriately, and of the impact of having the two of them together for longer than planned on the pup she kept. If she struggled...

[EwwSprouts]

Thanks for the responses to me. My training experience is only from taking our last one to sessions. He was keen to learn and a big softie. Maybe not ideal then.