Puppy separation problems and toilet training

(22 Posts)
Holliethedoxle Mon 23-Dec-19 22:50:16

Hi all, new poster and first time puppy owner. Hollie is a female 3/4 beagle, 1/4 dachshund cross. She is 13 weeks old. Currently I can crate her at night ok however if my partner does she gets upset and barks and whines. Same if we need to crate during the day at all, if I crate her she will have a whine but will settle without being all that destructive. She tries to pull the blanket covering her cage through the bars at most. When my partner crates her she barks, tries to break out the cage and usually wees and poos in her cage.

Even if we are both in the house and my partner leaves or goes upstairs she will bark and claw at the door when I'm sat in the room with her. If either of us try to shut her in the kitchen etc she will claw at the door and wee at the door.

Toilet training, we had to start on puppy pads due to us having guinea pigs and our neighbours having cats. Now she has her injections we want to move her toilet to outside however currently we are in the position where she will only poo on a puppy pad in the corner of our living room near the front door and will wee here, around the doorway to the kitchen and at the back door in the kitchen on rare occasions. We are wanting her to go to the backdoor so she can go in the garden and we are getting the pads closer to the back door for wees however she wont poo anywhere else and if we move the pads she will just go on the floor. If I put her outside she refuses to wee or poo, even if we put a pad down with her scent on. She also wont wee or poo on walks but goes as soon as she is back in the house. Any advice would be greatly appreciated and sorry for the long post!

OP’s posts: |
Holliethedoxle Mon 23-Dec-19 22:55:08

Forgot to add, we feed her in her crate however when I try to offer treats for her to go in she will refuse the treats as opposed to go in, even if I hold the treat to the back of the crate she will just sit next to the crate. She will sometimes reach in but tries to keep her rear legs out. I tend to have to assist her in by pushing her in then giving her the treat or sometimes even having to pick her in from a couple foot away and put her in myself. She used to go in for treats but seems to prefer to stay out than have a treat now. She goes in fine for her meals. Once I have her in her cage she is usually fine and makes very little fuss aslong as it is me.

OP’s posts: |
BiteyShark Tue 24-Dec-19 05:23:13

I have to say this is why I didn't start with puppy pads because I was worried that it would just prolong toilet training so that you then had to train all over again.

I would throw out all the pads, clean every area that she has toileted on with special enzyme cleaner and then go back to basics. Take her out after every meal, drink, play, sleep and frequently (every 20 mins or so) in between. As soon as she does toilet outside make a real fuss with praise. Keep going with that. Toilet training can take many weeks and now you need to start again without pads so the message is clear with outside is good. The aim is to minimise any accidents inside so you get the majority outside with praise. Once they start to go outside you can introduce a code word which will help with the association.

Rinsefirst Tue 24-Dec-19 09:33:38

Puppy 16 weeks today. Got her at 10 weeks and because late jags only got to meet others dogs at 14 weeks, although we have a senior dog. Last two nights she has stood at door to go out and then promptly done poo in garden.
So have spent literally last six weeks going out to garden every 30 mins without fail from 06.30 - 21.30 (apart from when she sleeps) cheering peepee and poo inanely.
Literally I have been rushing her out to garden as soon as eyelids open. Then about 5 mins after every meal.
Genuinely I think these winter months are the hardest to train a puppy where to do its business. So as bitey said it’s just relentless praise and effort on your part over the coming weeks.
New baby next door and the new mum generously said she has seen me in the garden at all hours with torches and getting soaked. I’ve made her feel her baby is not as such hard work grin. Keep at it OP. I think we can all get through this together.

Booboostwo Tue 24-Dec-19 11:28:37

Your dog is not crate trained, you are simply shoving her in a crate and, at times, shutting her in there while she is distressed. The more you do this, the less she will want to go in the crate. You probably need to get rid of the current crate due the negative associations and start from the beginning, maybe with a small fenced off area. Read up on how to crate train, it takes weeks.

She seems to have the beginnings of separation anxiety. This is a very serious problem. It becomes hugely inconvenient and is very difficult to treat. Get an experienced professional in to help you with this, it can escalate really quickly and become very difficult to live with.

For the toileting, get rid of the pads, clean all accidents with an enzyme cleaner, go back to toileting basics and be patient.

dotdotdot3 Tue 24-Dec-19 11:42:44

I'd echo everything Boobostwo has said. You've made some basic errors, but hopefully with the pup being so young, there is still time to put things right.

For detailed advice about about how to (properly) crate train, house train, and to avoid separation issues, I'd recommend joining the Facebook group 'Dog Training Advice & Support'. They have a 'files' section which covers all the issues you have. They also have a file about introducing dogs to smaller animals which, as you've got yourself a double hound mix, you will likely need in order to keep the guinea pigs safe - especially during the boisterous adolescent phase. Beagles/hounds are notorious for separation issues (they have very high social needs) but do make fantastic, loving pets if you do things right. Good luck!

Funf Tue 24-Dec-19 20:46:49

Talk to the breeder, start crate training again, dont feed in the crate, its for sleeping / quiet time.


Holliethedoxle Wed 25-Dec-19 07:34:15

Thanks for the advice, biteyshark, rinsefirst did you keep your dogs on a leader whilst out in the garden or let them roam free? If I leave her to roam free she appears to just think its play time and runs around and eats leaves etc.

Booboostwo, dotdotdot3, right from day 1 she hated being crated. Even if I slept next to the crate, as soon as the door was shut she would be barking and clawing to be out, the same happened if we put her in a pen, fence off any area etc. By playing crate games and feeding her meals in her crate (door open) she now will go in for sleep silently on a night, its only actually getting her in she seems not to like, I have to nudge her backside to get her in, which I never used too as she would follow the treats. Putting her in during the day if I need to pop out for an hour usually results in some howling, only s couple of minutes though. I have got a few new toys for her including a kong now so going to start filling it with tasty treats and only give her it when we go out so she associates it with her crate and hopefully this will help. As I say the main issue is with my partner. If my partner puts her to bed on a night or in her crate during tbe day it results in barking howling chewing and just general mayhem usually ending in an accident in her crate. I'm not sure why she acts a completely different dog for me when it comes to crating?

OP’s posts: |
BiteyShark Wed 25-Dec-19 07:37:37

We initially let ours have free reign in the garden but that was a disaster with stone eating and other things.

I then used a playpen that you could open up into one long line to cordon off a really boring section of the garden so he only had that to use. He was still a pain with digging (he grew out of that) but it made it easier to keep him in one place rather than running around in all the flower beds.

BiteyShark Wed 25-Dec-19 07:39:44

Also my dog responded differently to DH than to me for lots of things. I think because I was more strict on the training and DH was his 'playmate'.

Perhaps you can agree a routine in terms of how and what you say at night when putting her to bed so it's exactly the same no matter who does it.

Booboostwo Wed 25-Dec-19 11:07:27

You cannot crate a dog from day 1. This is not crate training, this is simply shutting a dog in a crate. To crate train you need to leave the door open for weeks while making the crate the best place for he dog to be, e.g. food and treats in crate, blanket and quiet time when no one touches the puppy in the crate, etc. Only when the puppy chooses to go in the crate do you start to close the door for short amounts of time at first and while you are around.

She acts differently with different people because she is a living, breathing creature with emotions. It could be that she is more bonded to you than your partner, doesn’t like the crate but feels more secure with you around and able to tolerate the crate. Or she’s more bonded to your partner and finds it more difficult to be separated from him.

You seem to be focusing on how inconvenient all this is for you. Believe me if she develops full blown separation anxiety things will get much worse for all of you. Focus on her, on understanding her and on meeting her needs now so that she does not become more stressed.

Rinsefirst Wed 25-Dec-19 19:16:28

On the toilet training front ... I’ve let her roam free in the garden and yes she has eaten everything. But I have stuck with it. She has been munching holly, ivy, drinking stale water, eaten loads of her own poo. It’s a challenge and I am getting better at prising her jaws open ... but after six weeks She had probably exhausted all the bad stuff in our garden

Holliethedoxle Wed 25-Dec-19 19:45:13

Unfortunately we had no choice but to crate on a night from the start and for the occasional hour or 2 during the day. Wasnt practical to leave her in a room or anything so unfortunately we are having to try and crate train from this position. I am happy to buy a new crate etc and I will continue with treats and rewards when she does wander in and out of it to try build a positive impression. I plan on letting her have free reign of the house once she is suitably trained but currently I feel it's just a bit of trial and error. Everything I have done so far was advised by an in law who bred and trained loads of cruft winning dogs however we have been told by quite a few people that they havent seen a puppy as strong minded as this one before. I feel I need to get a hold of these issues now before she gets too old.on a good note, around the house and with commands etc she is fantastic and training excellently. Just seems the crating is our one major concern atm.

OP’s posts: |
Booboostwo Wed 25-Dec-19 20:31:24

Why do you call her strong minded? She is not freaking out in the crate and when alone because she’s strong willed and wants her own way, she’s doing it because she’s stressed and insecure.

It’s not a choice between shoving her in a crate or letting her have access to the whole house. You can restrict the areas she goes in but you,just make sure the experience is not stressful for her. But I do stand by my original advice that you need a professional to meet her and help you before the separation anxiety gets out of hand.

Have you done any dog training classes with her?

B29R Wed 25-Dec-19 22:01:21

I came to this post as I have a similar issue with my dog, I'm finding however that booboostwo is giving nothing but criticism to OP and frankly is being negative and condescending. This is a thread for ADVICE, not patronising people to highlight only wrongdoings (their own opinion ofc). I'm appalled and hope OP can take the positives from this thread and ignore the bad vines from negative posters 🤦🏽‍♀️✌🏼

Booboostwo Thu 26-Dec-19 06:12:46

B29R separation anxiety is one of the most difficult issues you can have with a dog, it can take over your life and often cannot be fixed. I did advise the OP to get a professional in to help ASAP, some things cannot be fixed with a couple of ideas over the Internet.

B29R Thu 26-Dec-19 10:07:32

Booboostwo I am aware, however this forum is for advice. I'd rather see positive friendly advice rather than berating the OP for asking for help. Merry Christmas. smile

Booboostwo Thu 26-Dec-19 10:38:48

B29R as far as I am aware if you think my posts are inappropriate you can report them. As far as i am concerned I was giving advice. Merry Christmas to you too.

eaudenil Tue 31-Dec-19 03:32:21

I’d also be interested to hear if we aren’t supposed to crate at night as some PP are saying, until the puppy is accustomed to the crate, what is the suggestion? Our puppy hates being apart from us - will whine and bark when we leave the room during the day which is for 5 mins at most. So whether in @crate or free roam of a room, she’s unhappy. But it wouldn’t be practical to have a new puppy sleep in your room for example, free roaming. So I don’t really see what the alternative is at night, to crating as some are suggesting here.

Booboostwo Tue 31-Dec-19 05:36:52

Personally I sleep next to the crate with the door open and my arm through it to feel the puppy. This settles them and tells me when they wake up and need toilet. When I have had very young rescues I take them into the bed with me.

eaudenil Tue 31-Dec-19 11:10:15

Booboostwo useful to hear. I’ve been told by many people not to sleep with them as it creates dependency etc. such conflicting advice out there! I’ve been told to leave them in the crate and ignore whining/barking. It’s definitely like having a baby - the do’s and don’ts are very conflicting!
Definitely good to have useful advice and to hear different opinions though. Just a shame there are people on here who seem to also enjoy being mean to people who are doing the right thing by asking advice. I’ve been shocked by the comments on many dog related threads I’ve read in the past 2 weeks.

iWantToBreakBrie Tue 31-Dec-19 11:19:49

I have the crate by my bed and do as pp does - start with my arm inside the crate and making soothing noises. I then slowly withdraw but keep making the noises until I am back in bed and the puppy is asleep in the crate beside me.

I usually need to repeat that a few times but each time the puppy settles quicker and quicker.

One that is sorted, I slowly move the crate (sometimes just an inch a day) until it is away from me and outside the bedroom. This takes a couple of months or more, by which time the pup is happy to sleep alone.

Using a crate in the day is different, though, and does require a different approach to encourage the pup to settle and remain calm even when awake and when things might be going on outside the crate that provoke interest.

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