Raw dog food diet

[Stillmonday]

Anyone do this? Is it as simple as just feeding them raw meat? How do you know how much do you give per meal?

[Raphael34]

The general rule is 2.5% of body weight, it doesn’t look like much but the quality means they don’t need a lot. PmRoughly 80% meat, 15% bone, 5% organ. I work the percentages out over the week rather than try and get the right percentages every meal. Introduce it gradually into the diet. Adjust percentages according to your dog, more or less food depending on their body condition. If your dog develops the shits (after the initial introductory stage) then you’re feeding too much meat. If the poo is white then it’s too much bone. You can buy raw minced food that’s already got the right percentages of everything

[Stellaris22]

We tried it but dog refused to eat it, proved very wasteful as you have to throw it away if not eaten after a certain period of time.

Can recommend Bella & Duke as it comes prepared and containers are recyclable. It's what we tried. Although to get full benefit of raw diet it means they can only have raw foods, which includes treats.

[Stillmonday]

Can you not just feed supermarket chicken etc? Does it have to be specially made dog food?

[Twospaniels]

We have two working spaniels and we feed raw and kibble. The raw is from Honey’s and looks like mince with bits of veg and herbs in it. It’s quite expensive so we give then half and half raw and kibble.

I don't think feeding raw is as simple as just giving them meat or chicken only.

If you want to make it yourself you will have to do plenty of research to ensure your dog is getting every nutrient he needs.

[tabulahrasa]

You can just feed meat as in it doesn’t need to be pre packaged dog food... but, you need to make sure the balance of food you’re giving is right to give the right nutrition, so it’s not as simple as just buying a chicken

[heatingsoup]

Every vet I know thinks it's a terrible idea.

They see a lot more dogs than the average owner, plus many years of medical training...

[Lara53]

Vets think it’s a terrible idea because they get funding from the big pet food manufacturers such as Hills

[Lara53]

There are lots of helpful Raw feeding groups on Facebook. I raw fed my Romanian foster dog and will be feeding our new pup when they arrive

[Stellaris22]

I assume vets can be against it because if not done right it can be dangerous for the dog, but I find the conspiracy theory a bit far fetched.

Personally I didn't see any of the supposed benefits with my dog compared to the quite cheap diet she has now! But as I said previously, you have to completely change everything, including treats, to raw feed for it to be worthwhile.

[Catsrus]

Please don't just give random supermarket meat.

If you choose to raw feed then educate yourself. Start by using raw completes, someone has done the work of getting the meat:bone:offal ratio correct for you. If it says "complementary " then it's not nutritionally complete.

Nutriment is a good brand, as is PaleoRidge (I use this). Natures menu is widely sold in pet shops and they have a nugget version.

When you know what you're doing you can put together meals, you will learn things like never use supermarket chicken as it's got 3-5% salt in it (to plump it up so we think it looks more attractive). Chicken sold for dog consumption doesn't have that.

I'm very happy with raw for my three - but would give them kibble or cooked food if I needed to (eg post surgery fish and rice).

[Catsrus]

Oh and my vets are fine with me feeding raw, one commented how she'd been reading about the benefits of raw for dogs with skin issues. One of mine is a rescue terrier who arrived with skin issues and is now off all medication and on a raw diet.

What vets see are effects of a poor diet when people don't know what they are doing. They don't see the raw feeders whose dogs are never ill. Many raw feeders are also anti vax (I'm not) so they don't see the dogs for those either. My obedience trainer feeds raw and only gives puppy vaccinations, her dogs would only go to vet for physical injury (rare). Raw fed dogs who get raw meaty bones don't have dental issues either. I've never cleaned a dogs teeth and never had a dog whose teeth needed descaling - apart from rescues on arrival, like the terrier. He was only 4 and his teeth were terrible, 4 years later they are white and healthy.

[Veterinari]

@Lara53
Vets think it’s a terrible idea because they get funding from the big pet food manufacturers such as Hills
Well i’m Assume my cheque got lost in the post then cos after 15 years i’ve Received nothing. What a load of conspiracy theory bollocks.

Vets are against it because

1. Raw feeding is linked to dogs and becoming long term carriers and shedding E coli and campylobacter into the environment and is therefore a human health risk. There have been recent outbreaks of TB in cats and illness and even deaths in humans linked to raw pet food.
   

1. Many people have a lack of nutritional knowledge and can’t formulate diets properly leading to nutritional diseases
   

But don’t let fact stand in the way of a good conspiracy!

[nrpmum]

Check out 'A dogs dinner' by Ann Ridyard if you want to raw feed.

I'm not going to get into the argument for an against. It's almost as contentious as Brexit.

[heatingsoup]

Vets think it’s a terrible idea because they get funding from the big pet food manufacturers such as Hills

I should clarify, this was in conversations with friends that are vets, so they're definitely not trying to sell me Hills. I think a previous poster summarised the concerns that vets have.

I feed my dog kibble but I add in vegetables where appropriate.

[Stillmonday]

To clarify I'm not interested in this as a whim. My dog has been poo smearing for the last 9 months and I've tried everything else. Nothing works and no one (not even vets) can tell me what the problem is.

[Stellaris22]

My dog didn't really have any issues with her diet causing problems when we tried the raw diet, its just that I wanted to see if it was worth it, I didn't see any improvement to skin, coat and she refused to eat it (I think she is a cheap hound!).

But I have heard that when dogs have allergies etc the raw diet can be very beneficial. I would definitely recommend using a product that has already been made up though (nutriment, bella and duke etc) as the problems arise when people just buy raw meat.

[Jouska]

and even deaths in humans linked to raw pet food Can you link to report on this please

TB in cats and illness 13 cats in the whole of the UK and the food was never tested so not really a reason to panic. "The team did not test food samples so they cannot confirm that it was the source of the infections" taken from the published report in the Journal of Feline Medicine and Surgery

OP raw feeding does need some education so do look into it and as others have said it is a good plan to buy completes to start with. See if it suits your dog and helps the poo skirting issue.

[Veterinari]

@Jouska
www.foodsafetynews.com/2018/10/four-stec-infections-one-person-dead-after-exposure-to-raw-pet-food/

scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari&um=1&ie=UTF-8&lr&q=related:d6q9F6FME3p5iM:scholar.google.com/#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3Dd6q9F6FME3oJ

Info on contamination here:
www.theguardian.com/science/2018/jan/12/scientists-criticise-trend-for-raw-meat-pet-food-after-analysis-finds-pathogens

Re: TB in cats: 13 cases up from zero is a LOT! And the reality is there are many more - approx 90 cats have been tested and around half are TB positive. There’s a reason this is considered an outbreak and published in journals. It also has significant zoonotic risks for humans.
Since the cats could not have been infected by contact with infected wildlife (which is how they are thought to be commonly infected), other potential sources of infection were looked for. The cats were not fed raw milk, or exposed to infected people. The one consistent finding was that they had all been fed (to varying degrees) the same brand of commercial raw cat food (Natural Instinct). Further investigation found they had all eaten the wild venison version of this food.
icatcare.org/tb-in-uk-cats-fed-a-commercial-raw-food-diet/

Whilst the food consumed by the cats was not tested (as it had been consumed!) how do you propose these 40+ unconnected cats all developed TB when all other potential exposure routes had been eliminated and when we know many raw pet foods are contaminated with pathogens?

[Jouska]

Whilst the food consumed by the cats was not tested (as it had been consumed!) how do you propose these 40+ unconnected cats all developed TB when all other potential exposure routes had been eliminated and when we know many raw pet foods are contaminated with pathogens?
Test the same batch of food is the usual way -

Well I wouldn't presume without evidence or state as fact usually science needs concrete evidence.

Have you read the articles? one also said raw carrots were to blame!
4 deaths also not confirmed but assumed the raw food.

Of course raw food needs to be handled carefully but scaremongering just weakens the discussion.

We could discuss deaths from:-
salmonella
ecoli
lack of vit d,
mycotoxicosis in complete kibble food that certainly counts for more than 14 deaths and also has undisputed scientific evidence to confirm the deaths was from kibble.

I do not force any type of feeding on anyone but scaremongering does not help anyone make an informed decision.

[Veterinari]

@Jouska
TB is a chronic disease that emerges sometimes years later- it’s impossible to test the batch of food because it no longer exists. However the batch of food is the ONLY connection and common risk factor amongst these cats. When all other modes of transmission have been discounted the process of elimination leaves us with only one risk factor - raw feeding of TB infected venison. Scientific process is not scaremongering. I suspect that from your response you have little grasp of the epidemiology of this disease or the potential public health risks so I expect it’s easier just to dismiss these very real risks.

The UK health and safety executive, and the academic veterinary community have zero vested interest in making up stories to discourage people from choosing a variety of pet food - seriously, no one cares whether you feed kibble or meat. However they are interested in zoonotic pathogens that impact on the human population and would not be making these connections if the risks were not real.

Yes absolutely there have been quality control issues with commercial kibble food - but the OP didn't ask about them and they aren’t a significant human health risk as kibble is cooked so your ‘what aboutery’ is irrelevant.

[GetTheSprinkles]

What exactly is poo smearing? Leaky diarrhoea? Rubbing bottom on the floor? Excuse my ignorance, just never heard this phrase before and Google isn't providing an obvious answer

[cjpark]

I raw feed Bella and duke prepared food. its all in the correct quantities of offal:muscle:bone. The dogs love it and are in excellent condition. They have less wind and smelly poo, enjoy their meals and seem happier on it.

[Jouska]

@veterinari Last post on this issue - sorry OP for going off topic

Loving the "I am clever than you angle to your post"

As you know this TB outbreak has never ever been substantiated to the Natural Instinct Venison food. The FSA disagreed with you and did test the batch of food. No traces were found however because of the presentation of the illness in the cat it was considered that the TB was from an ingested source this however has never been confirmed to the venison food.

[Stillmonday]

@GetTheSprinkles Exactly, google provides no info so it's like my dog is the only dog that does it!
Her poo is hard, no diarrhoea. But when she sits down at home she leaves a poo stamp. Just a small amount like a smear. We only noticed as we had a white sofa!! She's not allowed on the sofa but i patrol the floors and her bedding and she's still leaving a stamp where she sits.
We have a crawling baby hence me desperate to sort the issue.

[GetTheSprinkles]

@Stillmonday Ah, thank u for explaining. How annoying for you! And it's definitely not her anal gland contents (they have more of a fishy smell)? My dog sometimes expresses these in the house but not very often