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Getting a puppy and original owner would like to show him(27 Posts)
We are looking at getting a terrier and have been in contact with an owner with puppies.
He would like to show the dog (he has three other show dogs) and we are happy with the idea. He has been very open and willing to answer questions which is nice and he says he will do the grooming and show training.
But we have zero idea of what’s involved and was hoping someone with experience can give me some advice?
We are having a chat about it tomorrow so would like to know if there is anything I should ask or be aware of.
I'd be asking questions like
- what's the time commitment in terms of training, grooming and shows
- what happens if a show is inconvenient for you (eg if in a holiday cottage that week)
- who does the pick up and drop off
- if he can offer a quid pro quo - for instance, looking after your DDog when you go on holiday? No idea if this is normal, but worth asking...
Make sure you have absolutely everything in writing. My main concern would be that if he dies really well, he might try to reclaim the puppy as his. He could also use your pup, if he does well at shows, as a breeding dog without your knowledge.
I would worry about it affecting plans for neutering
My questions would be :
Will it be a case of owner by yourselves and shown by the breeder? Or is the breeder wanting co-ownership?
What will happen with long-distance shows? Will you be able to go with him?
How many shows a year is he wanting to attend? Depending on the breed you could easily be without your puppy 2 weekends a month (if the breeder travels all over the country)
Does the breeder intend on showing in Europe? If so, who is responsible for the petpassport and associated costs?
Is he wanting a litter from the puppy (if a bitch) or to put him to stud (if a boy)? Pretty much all show dogs are entire.
We’re getting a puppy later this year that we will be showing (fingers crossed) but we’ll own him independently of the breeder.
Forgot to say - why isn’t he keeping the puppy or selling to a show home? If he/she has enough potential for showing I’m surprised the breeder isn’t keeping the puppy.
Is there any advantage to you and/or the dog? Will you not be allowed to have the pup if you don’t agree?
What if he wants to do something your dog and it’s not convenient for you?
I wouldn’t, my dog is my dog and I wouldn’t share him outside the family
Mind you, I’m not keen on dog shows in general, I think dogs should be pets ( or have a job) rather than being things to show off and focus on how they look. It’s about the person showing the dog, not the dog and I would also have some welfare concerns. I’m sure most people who show dogs treat them well but I have seen some issues and I don’t think that showing mirrors natural behaviour
I would't get a puppy under these conditions. If he thinks the dog has such potential, why doesn't he keep it? It will be your dog, but with this you are essentially taking care of someone elses show dog for them, meanwhile, you pay all the bills. And what if he wants the dog at times not convenient to you? I think it would be a terrible imposition, so its a no from me.
I wouldn’t be hugely worried about why he’s wanting to show a puppy he’s not keeping, if someone is breeding well and consistently then most puppies in a litter should be show quality tbh.
The practical stuff though, that you want to work out whether it’s something you’re ok with.
PP's have already articulated all my concerns with this. I would not buy a puppy where someone also had demands on him.
In wouldn't do this. I want my pets to be mine, not mine with random conditions attached.
I think he is not keeping the puppy because he has three already and I imagine you have to draw the line somewhere.
We can still have the dog if we are not up for letting him show it, but he has offered a discount for us agreeing to it.
There are some great things to consider here thank you. We haven’t agreed anything yet, just that we are open to the idea and wiling to discuss further.
The breeder we got our dog from was disappointed we weren’t going to show him but we just thanked him for the dog and that was that! Never had any intention of showing him except for the waggiest tail at the village show
Well first and foremost he won't really be your dog will he?
As pp said you'll be looking after someone else show dog for them. Is he going to pay for insurance, vet's bills, food etc etc.
He'll do the grooming, so the dog will be groomed to his specifications. And the dog will probably have a very strong bond with him as I imagine when you show a dog you do a great deal of training with it. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't imagine it's just a case of getting into the show ring with a dog you haven't spent much time with a expecting it to respond to what you want it to do.
Are you going to be happy for your dog to go off all the time with someone else?
Apart from the fact that I'm not keen on showing dogs, except, as pp said, in the village dog show type, there's no way I'd have a dog under these circumstances. Sounds very much to me, like he wants to have his cake and eat it too.
I have been thinking about this more. It might seem like the ideal thing right now that your puppy is show worthy and you don't have to lift a finger but when you have the puppy and he feels 'yours' it could feel very intrusive. If you do agree will there be any contracts as I am wondering how easy it would be to back out of the arrangement at a future date. But as my original post there is no way I would agree to this at all.
I would tread very carefully.
Other than the initial discount, what will you personally be getting from this arrangement? Once you're attached to your new dog, how will you really feel about handing them over to the ex-owner for training sessions and shows?
How comfortable is the dog likely to feel about essentially being uprooted from his home and family to go off with a virtual stranger?
And what happens when you want to do something with your dog or go somewhere that is incompatible with the original owner's plans?
I personally would run a mile from such an arrangement.
I wouldn't. I can imagine problems down the line. Breeder will train dog etc, what if you didn't keep the methods up at home etc etc.Wilk he be interfering? What demands will be made on you?
I think you will be feeding, walking and paying vet fees and basically looking after what will essentially be be 'his' dog.
If he is training and showing the dog it is likely to see him as the owner and follow his command. You may be dissapointed when you see where dear dogs loyalties lie.
Are you wanting to show your dog in the future. If you do then why not do it yourself rather than hand them back to the breeder. Then you are in full control and can stop at any time if you want to
I expect he will be a joint owner with you. I wouldn't do this unless I knew someone very well. One of my good friends co-owns and didn't pay for the dog as a result. But she shows him herself and is very heavily involved in the breed. I was planning to show my youngest but never did. The breeder wished us well and gave us the bitch with more show potential as she wasn't planning to show. Like I say unless I knew someone well I'd say no. I don't feel like dogs get that much out of showing, so I don't feel like the dog would gain much from it.
I would definitely not allow this. Having been around show dogs a lot when younger, I know there is a lot of work involved. She might want a say in the diet, exercise, grooming and access to the dog for show training as well as the shows themselves.
Presumably you want the dog for a pet for yourself, not as a minder for someone else.
A pet is a pet, performing is cruel to animals.
The pup will not be in joint ownership as said in a previous post. When the pup comes home to you, the registration with the Kennel Club will be changed into your name.
I would ask to which level the breeder expects to show at eg Open shows or Championship shows (which are the qualifiers for Crufts). The entry fees for these type of shows are vastly different.
Although a rapport is needed with a particular dog to show it, sometimes at shows a dog will be handled by another person for various reasons and the majority of dogs will be quite happy for the short time they are in the ring, so I do not think your pup will think of the breeder as their owner over and above yourself.
As well as the entry fees, who pays and the type of shows, ask if it will just be the shows close to where you live etc.
Dependant on the breed there may not be a show coat versus a normal coat, it does differ by breed though, as you said it is a terrier breed most are trimmed at the show itself before going into the ring.
Give it a go if you wish, you may even try showing the pup yourself.
It depends on how he wants the dog shown, dog showing is an expensive business. Defendant on distances you are willing to travel it will soon rack up; petrol, wear and tear on your car, hotels and the show entry fees.
I do know someone whose breeder takes their dog to show themselves and pay the fees etc themselves. But it's up to you if you want the breeder to do this.
I once bought a pup from breeders who asked if they could show him. We declined.
We didn't like the idea of him being driven all over the UK in a cage in the back of a van regularly.
It felt like they were wanting all the credit but unwilling to pay to look after the dog.
I wouldn't recommend you get involved with this.
Also, with the potential for your young dog being travelled all over by the breeder... we had a show standard pedigree puppy (now adult). She hated the car and used to get terribly car sick. She is okay with it all now, but it took a lot of little journeys to fun places, a lot of reassurance and a lot of vomit before we had it cracked. They do tend to grow out of it, but if you could have seen the poor little thing being so sick and miserable, your heart would have broken. So what if your dog is like this with travel while young? (and its not unusual). Don't underestimate how protective you will feel towards this puppy, and how upsetting it can be for you if they are upset. It's not just a pet, they do become very much part of your family. You miss them when they are not there.