DDog has bitten, what do we do now?

[tinseltitter]

Just that really
DDog3 has always had issues, we've managed them well enough until tonight when she bit DDog2 on the nose. Not really badly, she's drawn blood and he'll have a manly looking scar but it's still attached at least

My heads all over the place.

Naturally tensions are running high as this is yet another escalation. In the past we've seen behaviourists, but I'm loathe to speak to them at this moment as I'm sure they'll be full of good intentions which I feel are not necessarily in anyone's best interests.

I'm hoping that the trainer who we usually see and who knows DDog3 best will ring me back later, as she is more aware than most about what she's like to live with (for us and herself)

We will not rehome, it would kill her and quite frankly nobody would have her.

We would consider training but in all honesty it's simply been like firefighting up to now, and I'm not convinced we've got what it takes as a family to pull it off.

A life separated from her brothers and muzzled when she's out is just unthinkable, so now it's just the other unthinkable we are looking at.

Anyone with any advice would be greatly welcomed.

[RedHelenB]

Is she related to the other dogs in your household?

[tinseltitter]

Sorry no, brothers is just a turn of phrase. She has lived with them mostly uneventfully for five years though.

[madvixen]

Was there a trigger for the escalation tonight?

[Doggydoggydoggy]

I think if you are unwilling to rehome the biting dog then rehoming the other dogs or having the biting dog euthanised are your only options really

[Cyberworrier]

How old are the dogs? How long have you had them? Why were they fighting (over a toy? Food? Is one young and boisterous and another old and grumpy?).
Having to wear a muzzle when out is not the end of the world. When you say you don’t want to rehome and you won’t try training... not sure what you are expecting people to say? Why are you so sure no one would adopt your dog? Saying rehoming would kill her and then saying it’s the other unthinkable you are considering- - how could that possibly be better? Being rehomed would give her chance to be alive and be loved? Please consider training or behaviourist again. If you didn’t follow behaviourists advice last time, no wonder things didn’t change. Poor dog.

[nrpmum]

I think you need to speak with the trainer before you make a final decision.

[79andnotout]

Our dog is a biter. She's anxious and we've had to learn the triggers the hard way. We manage it with the help of our behaviouralist and take all precautions necessary. Is this the first time it's happened?

[Singlenotsingle]

You seem to have made your decision to have her pts and you want us to validate it, as you've ruled out the alternatives. Why should she not be separated from the others at home, and muzzled when out? It might be A bit inconvenient to you, but lots of dogs live as a single dog. It's not a problem.

[Dowdydoes]

Well I had two who were arsey and one who would initiate and bite. We kept them separate or under close control and it was all mostly ok. It wasn’t a big deal and the biter was muzzled outside which was ok too - if that helps as an alternative

[Doggydoggydoggy]

I’m not saying to pts, personally, I think the best option would be rehome the other dogs and just keep bitey but those saying just keep her separate, surely that will cause immense stress to her?

Stuck in the same house with animals she is tense and uncomfortable around, able to smell and hear and sense them but unable to get to them?

A social animal separated from its owners for large portions of the day due to not being able to be in contact with the other dogs?

How is that fair?!

If you are unwilling to rehome the others I do think the kindest thing to do would be to have her put down, certainly don’t think she should have to live constantly separated, I do t think that is humane at all

[tinseltitter]

Sorry, have been a bit distracted.

We won't rehome- rescues are chockablock full of dogs without her myriad of issues. She's an undesirable breed (no prizes for guessing which) and the stress of kennels would literally finish her off.

Separating- doggy put it much better than I could. She's devoted to them (at least till earlier tonight) and it's having them around that gives her the confidence in the house. We also live in a small house with no easy way to split them, short of putting them in cages.

[tinseltitter]

And as for rehoming the others, that had never even crossed my mind. Do people actually do that?

Admittedly it's not being PTS, but it's a pretty shit deal to be turfed out of the home you've lived in since you were 8 weeks old for something you didn't do.

[Doggydoggydoggy]

Well, I mean obviously the best thing would be to find some way of restoring peace but if you feel that her issues are unlikely to be resolved and that even with continued training she poses a risk to the safety of the other dogs then yes, I do personally it would be best to rehome the others.

If they have no ‘issues’ they will be easier to rehome, if you could find a rescue that fosters that would be preferable, or perhaps a friend or family member might take the others?

[Floralnomad]

Unless they are fighting on a regular basis I wouldn’t rush to do anything . My sister has litter mate brother and sister who are now 16 , they’ve always been very close and devoted to each other but 2/3 times during the 16 yrs they’ve had almighty fall outs , once resulting in them both needing the vet for bites and another where my sister needed treatment for bites to her hand where she split them up . As soon as it’s done it’s seemingly forgotten until the next time and in 16 yrs 2/3 scraps is manageable .

[Wallywobbles]

I have dogs that fight much less now they're 10 but it was pretty hair raising at times. To be honest we've just dealt with it. Cleared up the mess and carried on. However we absolutely will not have other dogs around ever.

[GemmeFatale]

If you crate train and select an appropriately sized crate there’s nothing inherently bad about crates/cages. Likewise muzzles.

[ThatsNotIt]

I have two males and they have their moments (5) and they can go weeks getting on great, they are actually brothers so some of it im sure is the dog version of sibling arguing if that makes any sense but there had been a few scrapes along the way, few cuts and bruises from each other, give them as much space as you can maybe take the naughty dog out separate to the others for a day or dedicate some special time for each dog so they know they are equally loved feed them all in separate areas but at the same time so there is no "favourites" i have to feed one of mine in the kitchen and one in the hall when they are having a off week. When naughty dog is being nice and all nice together really praise that, i have a soft muzzle for both mine but never had cause to use it as they are thankfully great with other dogs They just get pissed off with each other at times but i do have them just incase up as hey get older and grumpier they start showing signs of dislike to other dogs.
Impo dogs are a lot like humans, they get pissed off with each other if one is grumpy,happier than another or they are just a bit sick of seeing the same faces and can't be arsed I sure as hell know I do, if I'm in a bad mood and some is chipper they get on my nerves and it makes me worse.. try not to over think it, just test the waters over the next few days giving them space and rewarding the good behaviours to each other and go from there

[Floralnomad]

Crates and muzzles will not help in a situation where dogs live together in a house and have to be able to mingle as you cannot keep a dog in a cage all day / for many hours and it’s not reasonable to have a dog muzzled for long periods either .

[StoppinBy]

What you do next depends on who lives/regularly visits the house I think.

I had two dogs, a whippet X and a German Shorthaired Pointer who lived separately for about 4 years until my whippet x died. When I had them together the GSP was muzzled as even though she never started anything she finished it and did a lot of damage to my whippet x. At that stage I had no kids and it was just me in the house and later on my DP, now DH.

I would not live like that now that I have children, unfortunately in all honesty I would have put my whippet x to sleep. I know people will say that is harsh but she was unpredictable and would attack my other dogs randomly, she bit a chunk of my other poor whippets ear off one day and he was the sweetest dog ever, never did a thing to deserve it. I have gotten quite hard I must admit in my feelings on these kinds of matters but I would never again have a dog I couldn't trust.

My dogs had been living together for years before anything really serious happened but after the first major incident it just escalated.

Separating the dogs gave my GSP separation anxiety issues and I spent the rest of her life fixing things she either dug up/under or wrecked even after I lost my whippet x and she was back permanently with my other dog, I even had to pay thousands of dollars to bitumen the driveway inside our gate to keep her from digging out so in my experience separating is not a great option and was just really hard work.

[StoppinBy]

I also would not have considered rehoming her as she was unpredictable and I would not have handed that responsibility to anyone else.

[OverFedStanley]

1. Vet check to check she is not in pain
2. What happened immediately before the bite

3 Control triggers as much as possible
4 Be ok with the idea that her life may have a few restrictions but it is still a live and she will be fine with that
5 speak to behaviorist as you are doing

[OverFedStanley]

life!

[Nesssie]

I think you are overreacting a bit with talks of pts and rehoming.

1. Were you present when the bite occurred?
2. What were the circumstances? Was it one snap on the nose or a full on fight?
3. If its a possessive thing - No unsupervised toys or treats lying around now.
4. Dogs separated when not supervised from now on - baby gates so they can still see each other but are separated.
5. How does she react to other dog when out walking? Does she really need to be muzzled or can she be managed if she in kept on lead?

[Sarahlou63]

Hang on, your dogs have had one fight in "mostly uneventfully for five years though" and you're considering rehoming or pts? Really? I wouldn't have dogs left if I did that (7 at the mo, 3 house dogs and 4 farm dogs). Why are you thinking of such drastic action?

[tinseltitter]

Sorry for the silence, I've been at work.

DDog3 is a huge bundle of issues (which I'm not sure even I would have taken in if I'd realised) She:

1. Is extremely anxious which manifests itself in reactivity to other dogs
   
2. Is extremely hyperactive, literally impossible to wear out
   
3. Is hypersensitive to touch, it took three years before I actually managed to brush her properly
   
4. Is prone to random and inexplicable phobias. Her latest is a morbid fear of the bird feeder outside the window.
   

The problem is she's so difficult to manage. DH will not walk her (and she actually refuses to go near him if he has her lead, as I think she suspects he's not up to the job of keeping her safe from the angry pigeons) We cannot go away with her in case she has a melt down so we either stay at home or she goes to kennels- bizarrely she tolerates kennels and comes out relatively unscathed.

Last night she was in a (well managed up to that point) situation where another dog had come in. It was completely disinterested in her and was lying down at the other end of the bar. We were getting ourselves together to leave and DDog2 obviously poked his nose where it wasn't wanted (for clarity, DDog2 does this a lot and is quite unabashed by any rebuffs he encounters as a result) The bite was a combination of her strong jaws and DDog2 yelping and thrashing about like an eel.

We've spent a lot of time and money on training, food, behaviourists, various paraphernalia that promised to make a difference and so on. Cumulatively it has to a degree, but incidents like this just underline how far from normal our life actually is.

I'm going to speak to DH tonight and suggest we try a whole new approach with a different trainer. If we can eliminate all anxiety from her life then perhaps we'll have a fighting chance (no pun intended)