Can you help me idenitify the cause of the weeing problem please

[sleepwouldbenice]

Hi all

have a male cocker spaniel, nearly one, not neutered yet. Hes never been the best at toilet training - slow to get it, wee'd in his crate when younger unless we got their in a micro second, never asked to go out we have to prompt him etc

Nevertheless he settled down and we could say he was toilet trained as long as we put him out say every 1.5- 2 hours (depending on what he was doing of course) and 7/8 hours overnight mostly.

But every so often (we are on the 3rd time in about 4 months) he has a cluster of weeing inside say once a day. Nothing had changed, still being put out lots (and even more frequently if this pattern started), sometimes had only been outside less than half an hour beforehand and had a chance to /actually done a wee, still praised and the occasional treat for going outside, no change to food or drink etc. urgency and time he could last overnight shortened too. Also sometimes the wee smells quite strong-

So of course you think it might be an infection so you get him tested at the vet and they say they see nothing so you think its behaviour but then it stops as soon as it starts (say 5-7 days after it started) and we are back to everything being fine again...…. until the next time perhaps

So racking my brain for what this could be? Perhaps behavioural after all but really cant pinpoint a change to be fair and the urgency overnight would imply not? Perhaps each time we tested him the infection was just starting to go away so we missed it? Perhaps its something else or the tests aren't wide enough? I am just reluctant to take him to the vets, get him tested again, pay out again, just to be told no his crystal levels are fine so that's it...

If anyone has any ideas what else could be causing this I would be grateful!

Thanks!

[sleepwouldbenice]

sneaky bump

[sleepwouldbenice]

anyone?

[Girlintheframe]

This first thing I would have thought is UTI too.
If it’s not medical then I think it must be behavioural. Are you using an enzyme cleaner to use up the urine? Otherwise dogs will go back to the same spot to wee if they can still smell the urine. That’s all I can think of I’m afraid.

[BiteyShark]

I wonder if the issue is that he 'never asks to go out' so occasionally he just does it in the house as you didn't put him outside as the specific right time.

Assuming no medical issue again could you go back to basics but this time use something like training bells on the door. Bash them before you open door and take out and praise. Then get him used to bashing them with his nose (I used a treat at first to lure mine to bash them). Mine only had very subtle signs of asking at first but the bells were great and within a day or two he realised that bash meant door opened. We don't use them now as he has learnt that scratching the door or woofing also means I will let him out but when younger they were really useful.

[ImMeantToBeWorking]

Is he weeing in the same spot all the time or different ones? Is it after you clean the house? Some cleaning products smell like wee to dogs, so they wee to put their scent over it.

Have you done the whole putting his nose to it, asking what is this, and then putting him outside?

How often is it happening? Could it be a bitch close by is in heat so it is putting him out?

Seems strange that it comes and goes in phases.

[sleepwouldbenice]

Hi all

thanks for your responses! Yes we do still use the enzyme cleaner, and hes not doing it in the same spot

Bitey - the thing that gets me is that many times hes only been out say 20/30 mins before. When not in this phase (assuming it is one again!) he can be an hour or two between going. We do use bells too, hes not got the hand of using them

I did wonder if it was something else medical but I haven't got a clue what- the google suggests hormonal changes, bladder stones, kidney disease, diabetes... but not sure how likely they really are or if they are covered in the std wee tests

No other symptoms such as marking behaviour or not being able to wee.... I'm stumpted

[NotwhereIshouldbe]

When you occasionally reward him for going to the loo outside, do you reward him outside or when he comes back in? Sometimes I find dogs have not fully emptied their bladder in anticipation of a treat, so they come in to get the treat and then finish the rest indoors! Generally something you notice if they've been out and then pee in the house again a little later. To eliminate this as a possibility, reward for ALL wees which you feel are a decent amount (I.e first thing in the morning when you know for definite he will empty his whole bladder) and treat outside once he's done it, don't come back inside to treat. This way, if you watch him and think he's only done a small amount after 2-3 hours, don't reward but watch like a hawk and stick back out again if you think he needs to go again. Still fuss or praise but save the treats for when he fully empty his bladder (I appreciate it's a bit of a judgemental call!) Also what signs does he tell you he needs to go? Some dogs are very subtle when they ask to go out but if you're consistent every time he asks you that should stop him having accidents indoors in case he has learnt asking doesn't always mean he gets to go out so he has the odd accident.

[adaline]

Please don't rub your dogs nose in its own mess - it's such an old fashioned and unnecessary way of training.

Go back to basics. Out every hour or so (doesn't need to be every 20 minutes at that age), use a command word when he goes, praise like mad and treat. You need to go out with him to witness the act and to Praise and treat at exactly the right time.

Clean up all accidents without a fuss and using a proper cleaning spray from a pet shop. He'll get it, you just need to be consistent.

And I guarantee you he is showing you needs the toilet, you're just not paying attention and missing his signals. Mine often just goes and stand at the door and stares at me!

[ImMeantToBeWorking]

@adaline

I never said rub his nose in it - but I put my dogs nose too it so he is looking at it and asked him what happened before I put him outside for a few mins while I cleaned up the mess out of his view (read that somewhere). Took is less than 36 hours to train him doing it that way and now he will go and jingle the keys in the front or back door if he can get to them, or if in the sitting room with us he will paw the door gently to get out.