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DDog tried to bite. Rehome or PTS?

(170 Posts)
TetleysSurpassesYorkshireTea Fri 07-Dec-18 11:21:06

Hi, I have a 10 month old Maltese-Westie cross.

Today, after his bath, I tried to remove some dirt from his face and he tried to bite me. He is normally very placid after a bath, and I had him wrapped in a towel having a cuddle. He had let me wash his face in the bath, but as soon as he saw my hand approach his eye, he tried to bite. He has tried to do the same thing before in similar circumstances, when being groomed.

DDog does have a history of nipping ankles and hands, and we have redirected to toys or said a firm "no". We have also gently pushed him away or distracted by getting him to sit and calm down.

I do feel DDog's behaviour is deteriorating. We have contacted the Behaviourist, based at the vet, about the nipping and have followed her advice, but DDog still tries to attack feet and hands, often in an attempt to play, and despite our best efforts.

DDog has also become very barky. Again the Behaviourist advised us how to deal with this, which I thought was going pretty well, but he has now started barking and growling at people just passing the house.

It sounds silly, as he is only a Maltese, but his nips really hurt.

I have an 8 year old daughter who cannot cope with th1r barking or nipping due to Aspergers. I am worried that the dog will try to bite her when she pushes him away from licking her fave etc.

It seems as if in the past few weeks, the behviour has deteriorated more.

Does anyone have any advice re what the best thing to do in this circumstances?

We were looling at rehoming anyway due to the barking and its adverse affects on my daughter. I have contacted Maltese Rescue and have arranged for the lady to call me back.

Do I try to rehome or PTS? Any advice would be great.

steppemum Fri 07-Dec-18 11:27:42

he is 10 months old?
I am not an expert, but I am wondering if some of this is really puppy stuff, and your expectation are too high?

I guess unless you were there it is hard to tell the difference between nips, play etc and genuine attack bite.

RatherBeRiding Fri 07-Dec-18 11:28:45

Please try to rehome - it doesn't sound like anything an experienced owner couldn't overcome with the time and patience to put in - at 10 months he is still a puppy and a lot of this sounds like puppyish behaviour.

FWIW - my rather elderly JRx dislikes being groomed and a LOT of snarling ensues and I have no doubt an attempted bite could follow if I wasn't careful especially around the areas he finds most annoying.

I don't mean to imply that you're not an experienced or patient owner, but you have a young child and it's best if the dog and child are not potentially put in a situation that could end in disaster.

There's nothing you've described that sounds as though the dog should be PTS - some dogs are really sensitive/defensive about their faces being handled. As he is still so young this is almost certainly something that can be overcome with the correct training.

Hope it all works out for you.

OliviaBenson Fri 07-Dec-18 11:30:17

FFS, he's a 10 month puppy and you are talking about PTS? What the hell did you expect?

He's young, much of the behaviour sounds like mouthing which is normal.

What did your behaviourist advise you do exactly? How long have you been trying for?

DogInATent Fri 07-Dec-18 11:37:19

Rehome, it's best for him as your situation is clearly unsuitable.

TillyMint81 Fri 07-Dec-18 11:43:00

I'd suggest having him restrained in a towel made him feel threatened? What's a cuddle to you won't be seen the same way to a dog whose fight or flight instincts kick in.

TetleysSurpassesYorkshireTea Fri 07-Dec-18 11:45:08

@OliviaBenson - well aren't you a helpful, positive, delight?

The fact that I am asking for advice means that clearly I do care and am looking for a way forward.

I was led to think, by other posts I have read on here and elsewhere, that dogs who attempt to bite should be either rehomed or PTS.

Pardon me for having the audacity to check. I presumed that is what this sub is for?

TheLittlestLightOnTheTree Fri 07-Dec-18 11:47:24

where have you heard that PTS would be an option??

FloatingthroughSpace Fri 07-Dec-18 11:51:06

When I was a kid we had a border collie cross. As a big puppy he would "herd" us and nip our ankles. He never bit down hard. He grew up into the most fabulous, loyal, trustworthy dog who would have laid down his life rather than see any of us threatened or hurt (chased away a set of burglars once). Puppies can nip.
In your situation if DD can't handle the dog, rehoming sounds best.

TetleysSurpassesYorkshireTea Fri 07-Dec-18 11:51:59

And thank you to everyone else for pointing out that it can be resolved by training and that I don't need to panic.

We are first time dog owners and, despite all the reading up we did, didn't expect that our DDog would try to bite. Everything else, I can work with.

I guess it is hard to know what to fully expect unless you are an experienced owner. I feel bad now for even thinking of having him PTS (but very glad we won't have to as he is adorable, and just needs a decent owner who DOES know what they are doing).

I wonder how people who have never had a dog become experienced?

Jaguar2017 Fri 07-Dec-18 11:54:46

The dog barks & bites! Sounds like a bundle of fun. Rehome it a.s.a.p.

TetleysSurpassesYorkshireTea Fri 07-Dec-18 11:59:56

We will definitely be trying to rehome via the Breed specific rescue. My DD's diagnosis occured after we had got DDog. We did not realise she would have issues with him.beforehand. Neither did she. If we had, we would not have taken him on.

The Behaviourist suggested distraction, ignoring bad behaviours and rewarding good ones. Which we were already doing anyway TBH.

Abra1de Fri 07-Dec-18 12:01:07

My Terrier took a long time to learn about not nipping, and we are experienced owners of the breed. You just have to consistent about growling a NO BITING at them and immediately putting them away somewhere quiet as soon as they do it.

She eventually got it. Took her longer than our other dogs but she is now very gentle and loving. I have noticed that if we ‘razz’ her up too much she can start to mouth our fingers and that is a sign that we need to calm down and remind her about no biting. She wants to be with us and have our attention and acquiesces.

adaline Fri 07-Dec-18 12:01:47

He's a puppy, and at 10 months they're heading into adolescence. Their behaviour deteriorates for a while and then, if you're persistent and put the training in, they come out the other side as a well-adjusted adult dog.

I would imagine he felt vulnerable wrapped in a towel (and therefore unable to escape) with you going towards his face like that, and bit out of fear or uncertainty. That doesn't mean he's aggressive or that he needs to be PTS - puppies bite and nip, it's well within the spectrum of normal, however frustrating and painful it might be at the time! I would imagine if the dirt was near his eye, that he didn't see you approach his face and it scared/startled him, perhaps?

Wait it out. At about 18 months they start to calm down - maybe sooner in your case as he's a smaller breed. Just be persistent and keep going with the training and the positive reinforcement. Mine is a lot more stubborn now than he ever was as a puppy but I just persist even if I'm really pissed off with being ignored again!

AgathaF Fri 07-Dec-18 12:01:57

Please rehome but go through either the breeder or a breed specific rescue if possible, legitimate dog rescue if not. Please, please don't try to sell the dog on, or give away, through gumtree or FB etc. The dog will probably fall into the wrong hands and end up being in a puppy farm or used as fight bait.

If you can't deal with the training or puppy stage, and are worried about your child's safety, then rehome is really the kindest option.

SlowNorris Fri 07-Dec-18 12:02:03

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

DanielCraigsUnderpants Fri 07-Dec-18 12:02:23

Your dog is still essentially a puppy. And they nip, chew, etc. They bark too. At 10 months, they are going through adolescence and like any teenager will test the boundaries.

I work for a behaviourist and am a dog trainer. Nothing you have said falls out of the realms of normal. Puppies are hard work. We have to put that work in.

PTS is not appropriate or justified. It sounds as though the dog isn't right for you and your family. There are a number of dog rescue centres out there. Please take the time to rehome your puppy responsibly.

Costacoffeeplease Fri 07-Dec-18 12:08:11

PTS? Really hmm

Re home the poor thing responsibly ASAP, hopefully to much better owners - and don’t get another pet that will become too much trouble once they’re no longer little and cute

DeepDarkWoods Fri 07-Dec-18 12:09:04

This makes me so sad. Our dog went through a terrible faze of nipping. We were covered in bruises. He soon grew out of it and he has been the gentlest boy. All the love and adventures we would have missed out on if we had given up. Maybe just give him a little longer.

DeepDarkWoods Fri 07-Dec-18 12:12:34

Could you get your daughter more involved and help create a bond by getting her to teach him some tricks?

adaline Fri 07-Dec-18 12:16:59

I think some people are being a bit harsh - lots of the literature says puppies will stop nipping and biting at around 6 months old - it can be a bit of a shock when it goes on quite a bit longer than that!

And yes, a puppy nipping with needle teeth is sore but not as sore as teenage nipping - at 10 months they have adult teeth and much stronger jaws. Mine has caught me a couple of times while playing tug and it bloody hurts!

I read all the books on puppy adolescence and such and most of them said puppy nipping would stop when the adult teeth had grown in - at 8 months old at the latest, but often earlier. I've read threads on here where people claim their puppy hasn't nipped or bitten anyone since it was 4 months old. Reading those things over and over again can lead you to believe that your dog is aggressive or that there's something wrong with it if they still nip at 7/8/9/10 months old.

I have a beagle and they're a nippy breed anyway, but I still didn't expect the bitey stage to last as long as it did. I then joined a few Beagle groups and was relieved to find it was totally normal. Doesn't make it less painful but is a bit more reassuring!

OhLemons Fri 07-Dec-18 12:18:48

What training are you doing with the dog? When we got ours we had a trainer come to the house and do a few one to one sessions with us.

It was really useful and helped us to understand our dog better.

It is quite normal for dogs to go through an adolescence, if you google it you will find lots of info.

IMO it is way too soon to be thinking of rehoming and whoever suggested PTS is nuts.

Have any of you bonded with the dog? Your post doesn't read as though you have.

MabelBee Fri 07-Dec-18 12:24:02

Have you heard of Dogs For Good? They run courses for family dogs in households with autistic children. We found it so useful and they provide ongoing support after the course managing any issues which may come up. There are lots of things they can teach you to promote the bond between your child and puppy and also acclimatising your puppy to an autistic home environment.

www.dogsforgood.org/how-we-help/family-dog/our-workshops/

The attempted bite may have been an air snap, which means you missed other body language beforehand showing the puppy's discomfort. This can be subtle and hard to spot. It may be worth asking your behaviourist about yawning, licking lips, a freeze, panting, stiff tail wagging. There are lots more.

selavy Fri 07-Dec-18 12:26:28

OP you need to rehome this dog as you clearly don’t understand what it’s like to have a puppy. I can’t believe that anyone would ever consider putting a 10 month old dog to sleep because he TRIED to bite them. Young dogs are constantly learning and you need to give this dog to someone who is willing to teach them right from wrong and not have this type of reaction to something to trivial.
I honestly question why some people get dogs if they have absolutely no understanding of how animals behave.

MagicRoundabout1951 Fri 07-Dec-18 12:53:26

It seems you're caught between a rock and a hard place - your concern for your daughter's safety and your puppy's future. I'm a first time dog owner too but didn't have to worry about a child's safety and my puppy stopped nipping at a few months. You obviously care enough to have seen a behaviourist. Dog training classes help but don't work overnight and it's best if the whole family goes. My opinion, for what it's worth, is that rehoming through the original breeder or a breed rescue sounds a good idea. Sometimes things don't work out but you deal with them responsibly and find the best solution for your puppy and your DD.

pigsDOfly Fri 07-Dec-18 12:53:34

I was going to come on and mention what MabelBee said, but she got there before me, about the signs every dog owner should be aware of prior to a dog attempting to bite.

You sound as if you've made up your mind to rehome the puppy, pts is not an option you should even be considering; this is a puppy not a great big slavering out of control dog, but if you did decide to keep him you need to make yourself more aware of dog behaviour and reactions.

Your dog may very well find being wrapped in a towel and cuddled very intimidating; a great many dogs hate being cuddled, it's not a dog behaviour and now he's an adolescent animal he's going to start to make his feeling known.

I'm wondering how much research you actually did prior to getting this puppy as even for a first time owner you sound very unaware of what to expect from a puppy.

Failingat40 Fri 07-Dec-18 12:59:47

Hmm...was he bought from scumtree too by any chance?? Bought as a live teddy for a kid?? hmm

If he's nippy around bath time and face cleaning then use a muzzle on him for those times. You'll have to desensitise him to one first though.

Pp's are right, he's an adolescent puppy just now they can become horrendous with pushing bounds and training can go backwards before going forward again.

A small dog like this at that age should never be pts, it's not even an option for any sane person to think that way. Is this typical of today's instant gratification then throwaway society?!

Fashionista101 Fri 07-Dec-18 13:02:52

PTS because a 10m old puppy is nipping?

With not disrespect why didn't you do some research? For the pups sake please seek a professional and pay for regular classes. Once the effort has been put in, think about rehoming but you've got to be prepared for a lot of hard work with a puppy. I genuinely do think a baby is easier confused

SummerGems Fri 07-Dec-18 13:07:04

Really some of the responses on this thread and on this particular topic are so aggressive and there is really no need.

At ten months old he is still a puppy and I wouldn’t have considered him aggressive, but then society is now obsessed with how dogs should always behave at all times and looking at this board alone you’d be forgiven for thinking that all dogs are should always be 100% impeckibly behaved and that no dog ever barks ever.And the real world just doesn’t look like that.

Many young dogs nip for whatever reason, sometimes it’s because they’re young puppies and are still learning, and so are the owners. Sometimes it’s because they’re aggressive but generally aggression is much more obvious than just general nipping, and for the record I would put an actually aggressiveive dog to sleep without hesitation but doesn’t sound as if this one is.

In terms of barking, he’s a small breed, and generally small breeds are more yappy than larger breeds, but fact is that dogs bark and it’s what they do.

If you all genuinely love the dog I wouldn’t even look to rehome tbh. What are the issues your dd is having with him and how can you look to resolve them? Unless her diagnosis is a very serious one and she is a threat to the dog I would say that it’s actually crucial to develop a relationship with the dog if possible.

As for this statement from a PP

No vet will put a 10 month old puppy to sleep because his owner is incapable of looking after him. you’re wrong. A vet will put any animal to sleep if the owner requests it.

TatterdemalionAspie Fri 07-Dec-18 13:14:00

@TetleysSurpassesYorkshireTea

Please read this - en.turid-rugaas.no/calming-signals---the-art-of-survival.html

And this - www.amazon.co.uk/Culture-Clash-Revolutionary-Understanding-Relationship-ebook/dp/B00A2XQ17Q/?tag=mumsnetforum-21

When you say he bit you, did he make contact? Did it break the skin? Did he growl or use the calming signals in the first link? Have you ever punished him or told him off for growling?

As for the barking when people walk past the house/come to the door... of course he does - he's a dog!

If you want to have a dog, you need to do some reading and be willing to learn about their behaviour, language and needs. He's still a pup.

Lucisky Fri 07-Dec-18 13:17:29

I have had dogs all my life, and I can honestly say that all of them have bitten me. Either as puppies, which is just par for the course, or accidentally, as adults while playing, and one when he had a bad leg and I accidentally hurt him when I picked him up. I would never ever have considered pts or rehoming for these things, which are part and parcel of owning a dog. And barking. All dogs bark; it would be a strange dog that doesnt. You will never stop a dog barking, you just have to train them to stop when you tell them, which requires consistency.
Your dog is also in the teenage stage when they are at their most bumptious. Things will improve with time, but tbh it sounds as though it is not really working for you and your family.

ScreamingValenta Fri 07-Dec-18 13:20:44

sad

Chocrock Fri 07-Dec-18 13:31:13

Nipping is normal puppy behaviour.

Barking is normal dog behaviour.

If these behaviours are not acceptable to you then re-home him and carefully ensure they are a loving experienced dog family as re-homing can be traumatic for the dog.

Wolfiefan Fri 07-Dec-18 13:37:10

What training and exercise is this dog getting?
Of course you don’t pts. This isn’t a dog attacking people. It’s an exuberant or scared puppy.

mimibunz Fri 07-Dec-18 13:39:57

Just rehome the pup. You trot out killing the dog way too easily and early.

mimibunz Fri 07-Dec-18 13:41:09

I loathe the term PTS. They’re not going to sleep!

RedDeadRoach Fri 07-Dec-18 13:48:06

Normally I do say if a dog bites unprovoked it should be put to sleep but normal puppy nipping is not the same as biting and a dog can be trained out of that. My first thought was when he tried to bite seeing your hand come towards his face is has his sight ever been checked? I know he's only young but he might have an issue with his eyes.

I would also suggest as a first time dog owner that you read up on the non verbal signs that dogs give as to their discomfort. There are lots of signs that a dog will give before they go to snap so if you can learn to recognise some of those signs then hopefully you could avoid this happening in the future.

ErrolTheDragon Fri 07-Dec-18 14:17:51

* I wonder how people who have never had a dog become experienced?*

One way is to start with a dog, not a puppy. Of course, it may not be easy to be matched with one suitable for your family but there are adult dogs who have no behavioural problems who need homes for various reasons (illness or housing problems of previous owner, for instance).

The other way (which is of no use at this point to the OP) is to start when they don't have small children or ones who may not be able to cope with a pup.

Most families with an 8yo could probably work through this pup behaviour; the OP may need to put her DDs needs first and rehome the pup.

Best of luck, OP. thanks

wombatron Fri 07-Dec-18 14:34:42

Mine still bite me when it comes to cutting nails - it's not our favourite together activity to say the very least. Though at 10 it's more gums now. It sounds a bit like puppy behaviour and it doesn't sound like you have the experience or time to deal with it alone - I think rehoming pup is the kindest thing you can do here. Westies are known to be a bit barkey so if considering a dog in the future I'd say research carefully before committing.

TetleysSurpassesYorkshireTea Fri 07-Dec-18 14:50:55

Thank you for commenting.

Just to clarify.....our little pup is loved and adored. We got him from a reputable breeder (not as a live teddy bear whichever judgemental idiot said that upthread). Sadly the breeders have now moved away so unable to ask them for advice.

He has been through KC puppy training with all of us attending and is well trained in most areas.

The nips have always been due to over exuberance and a few minutes time out has tended to work well.

I know about the warning signals that dogs give, we went over them at puppy class and with the vet.

Today, there WAS NO warning. He just went. Lips pulled back, and tried to bite. THAT is why I am bothered!

I am sorry if I sound too calm about this for some of you. I am actually devastated to even consider PTS (I am happy to call it that, whoever objected). I absolutely adore out pup.

The lady who owns the breed rescue was surprised at how much we do try with him, how seriously we take his exercise and routine etc.

Also, the reason I have mentioned rehoming anyway is not solely due to my DD not being able to cope with the barking and nipping. I am currently going through a marriage break up and am disabled. I physically can't walk him as much as he needs, and I am currently employing a dog walker as much as I can afford. The rest of the time, I am walking him and it is causing extreme pain. But I am putting his needs first.

I do have to say, some of the posters on this board may think they are standing up for animal welfare, but the hostility they have shown really makes me question their capability for compassion.

To the others who have reassured me this is normal, thank you. PTS is now off the table and he is going to the vet tonight to have his eyes checked for sight and any source of pain.

I am rehoming via breed rescue and was really worried that they wouldn't take him after this instance. Hence my concerns. Private rehoming would be out of the question due to concerns re the suitability of the new owners.

I put in so much time looking at which breed was right for us. It is so nasty when people make false assumptions about me not caring or being a good owner. It is precisely because I care that I asked here.

Obviously, I now wish I hadn't.

TetleysSurpassesYorkshireTea Fri 07-Dec-18 14:52:59

PS We were told we were being sold a docile Maltese. Only after discussing it with breed rescue have we realised he is a cross. We would never have adopted him if we had known!

DogInATent Fri 07-Dec-18 14:57:23

It's a small terrier puppy, all of this is normal. Your reaction to even consider euthanasia is what's not normal, and what's destined you to get a lot of flak over this. Unsurprisingly the people in this section have a dim view of killing healthy animals.

Small terriers are generally nippy and barky, it's in their nature. To an extent, from puppyhood they will settle down somewhat as they mature. But even adult dogs of these breeds are inclined to these behaviours. Maltese are a very barky breed. It's part of being a small terrier.

Should there be a next time then research, research, research, should be the order of the day. I'm not sure that any dog will ever be right for you though if your daughter would find close canine contact uncomfortable. The best breeds with children do tend to be quite physical with their affection. Maybe find a friend with a dog that you can visit, ideally someone with a spaniel or staffy as these tend to be the softest with children. Let her get used to a dog that isn't around constantly.

This time around rehoming may be best for all involved. It's a shame, but euthanizing would definitely be an excessive response.

adaline Fri 07-Dec-18 14:57:42

I'm confused OP.

You say you bought him from a breeder and that you were sold him as a docile Maltese (whatever that is, he was just a puppy, there's no such thing as a docile puppy!) Then you say he's a cross and you adopted him?

If you bought him, he clearly wasn't from a good breeder if he's actually a cross (having been sold as a purebred) and if he was bought, why are you talking about breed rescues and adoption? confused

Failingat40 Fri 07-Dec-18 15:06:21

We got him from a reputable breeder (not as a live teddy bear whichever judgemental idiot said that upthread).

A reputable breeder does not breed crosses

Only after discussing it with breed rescue have we realised he is a cross. We would never have adopted him if we had known!

And you say I'm the idiot!?

Sadly the breeders have now moved away so unable to ask them for advice.

Hmm very convenient for them.

It smacks 100% of puppy farming at its best. You have been sold a pup for looks with absolutely no selective breeding or socialisation and possibly shipped/smuggled from Eastern Europe.

I'm sorry if you think I'm the judgemental idiot here but it's people like you who are inadvertently causing so much damage to the pet industry.

I really hope this serves as a lesson for others reading who may want to but a puppy from 'a reputable breeder'. So reputable that they are selling cross breeds then moving away. That's how puppy farming works, they rent houses etc.

starcrossedseahorse Fri 07-Dec-18 15:07:33

Tetley rehome this pup asap via the breed rescue. They will know who to place him with so that he gets the best chance of a long and happy life.

starcrossedseahorse Fri 07-Dec-18 15:11:56

And posters have got upset and angry here as talk of euthanising a 10 month old pup is pretty shocking tbh.

I am glad that you are doing the right thing by this little chap and not putting him up for sale on Gumtree or the like as some 'owners' would.

The breed rescue is def the way to go.

BiteyShark Fri 07-Dec-18 15:17:31

I was led to think, by other posts I have read on here and elsewhere, that dogs who attempt to bite should be either rehomed or PTS.

OP non doggy people who don't understand normal puppy behaviour would say PTS. Sounds like you need to rehome to the breed rescue ASAP so they can find him a suitable home.

TetleysSurpassesYorkshireTea Fri 07-Dec-18 15:20:27

@FwllingAt40 - lots of assumptions there and you know what they say about people who assume.........

I have his KC registration paperwork here. The breeders brought a Maltese stud in to breed from the mother. Having explained this to breed rescue, the lady there asked if the breeder had Westie's too. I said she did. So the breed rescue lady thinks that given more of the description I have given, that mum was already pregnant when put to breed.

I am hoping it was an honest oversight by the breeder, and not that they were swinging the lead. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.

Vet was convinced pup is a full Maltese. Breed rescue lady thinks he is a cross.

We knew all puppies are hard work. But a Maltese has different exercise needs and attributes than a Westie. Well according to the KC anyway when I rang them doing research.

If poor pup was from a puppy farm, then that is terrible. I am even more pleased we had him neutered despite him coming from a Crufts line.

So to clarify we bought our pup, and the lady I am rehoming via is breed rescue and adoption. Apologies if I was confusing.

adaline Fri 07-Dec-18 15:21:41

Reading back I misunderstood you OP, sorry.

But you clearly didn't get this puppy from anywhere remotely reputable. He's not a Maltese but a cross (very common for puppy farms) and the breeders having "moved" leads me to believe they probably never lived there in the first place - in other words, the house was a front so you believed your pup came from a lovely family home (which is obviously not the case).

In contrast our pup came from a breeder who I'm still in touch with. We're friends on FB and there's a private group set up for everyone who has puppies from him. We message each other most days, receive photos of each other's pups as they grow and I think we've all asked him for help and advice for some reason or another - be it diet related, how to stop them pulling on the lead, or how to stop them whining when alone.

I'm glad you're rehoming your dog but please don't get another. I know you couldn't predict a marriage breakdown but your dog clearly never came from a decent background in the first place so it's pretty obvious you didn't do all the research you're claiming you did.

adaline Fri 07-Dec-18 15:23:08

Oh, and pretty much anyone can KC register a dog. It doesn't make them reputable breeders.

ExcitedForChristmas18 Fri 07-Dec-18 15:25:32

I can not believe you it even came into your brain to KILL a healthy puppy!!
Let that poor dog be rehomed. The dog deserves a loving owner. You are not.
Do not ever get a dog again, or any animal again!!
It's shows your lack of intelligence 'we thought we were getting a docile dog' line?!

angry

TetleysSurpassesYorkshireTea Fri 07-Dec-18 15:29:06

Oh and a general comment to some of the harsher posters on here:

I posted asking for advice, have been ripped to shreds, assumptions made and had a thoroughly unpleasant experience. But hey, my poor pup lives to woof another day so all is ok, right?

Wrong! Anyone reading this who has also got concerns, about whether their dog trying to bite is normal, would likely not bother posting to ask. Instead, they may post on AIBU or Chat, where the advice may be very different.

So my pup is safe......other people's pups, maybe not.

One thing I know for sure, if pup tries to bite me or my daughter again, I won't be back asking for advice. I will seek it elsewhere.

adaline Fri 07-Dec-18 15:31:04

One thing I know for sure, if pup tries to bite me or my daughter again, I won't be back asking for advice. I will seek it elsewhere.

I thought you were re-homing it?

And people HAVE given you advice. That it's normal for a puppy and that if you'd done your research you would know that. You would also know that wrapping a dog in a towel like that (so it can't escape or back off) and trying to touch it's face is really not a good idea!

DogInATent Fri 07-Dec-18 15:31:56

We were told we were being sold a docile Maltese
Sorry, but someone saw you coming. No pedigree dog should ever be described as having traits that are contrary the standard breed traits. For a Maltese to be docile would mean it wasn't a Maltese.

ExcitedForChristmas18 Fri 07-Dec-18 15:32:23

I thought you said you were getting the puppy rehomed? So now you have changed your mind?! And that poor puppy isn't going to get the right love, care and attention it needs?!

anniehm Fri 07-Dec-18 15:32:27

Not all dogs are keen on grooming, I don't bother (hosepipe and tub of soapy water in garden does trick for mud, though I usually avoid this by sending him in the river just before getting in the car), the barking needs correcting but at 10 months they are adolescent and it's normal for behaviour to be up and down. Training needs to be consistent too, that's why they don't improve.

TetleysSurpassesYorkshireTea Fri 07-Dec-18 15:32:48

Ok, as many of you are adamant that my pup is from a puppy farm, I shall contact the KC directly as I got the breeders details from them. They are not on their site any longer and their number is not recognized. When I went round, the new owners said the.old house owners have moved away.

So I shall contact KC direct.

BiteyShark Fri 07-Dec-18 15:37:55

I honestly think you need to concentrate on rehoming the puppy rather than phoning the KC.

What did the breed specific rescue say in terms of rehoming? Are they waiting on you? For space or would it be a rehome from your house to new owner but via them?

stayathomer Fri 07-Dec-18 15:44:39

I don't think you should give him more time just because it doesn't sound as if all of this is good for your daughter but please please rehome

adaline Fri 07-Dec-18 16:00:26

Where you got him from is irrelevant now though. It's very sad if you got him from a puppy farm but what's done is done. You just need to focus on your pup and either re-homing him via a rescue, or getting specialised 1-1 help from a behaviourist.

whateveryousay Fri 07-Dec-18 16:00:39

You think people are being harsh, OP?! That’s because you are talking about killing a young dog for being....a young dog!!

DanielCraigsUnderpants Fri 07-Dec-18 16:03:29

Where the puppy came from isn't really important OP now. No one wants to buy from a puppy farm. We can't know if you did or didn't. They can be very slick operators what is important now is the present and future

I understand you've got a lot going on. You're here for advice if you didn't care you wouldn't have bothered posting, getting a behaviourist or seeking breed rescue support. You have possibly been naive or not researched in the right places. But so many other dog owners have done the same. What's important is learning and moving on.

I believe from what you have said the best thing for all of you is to rehome. Your dog is young and stands a good chance of finding a new family easily.

FATEdestiny Fri 07-Dec-18 16:06:29

@TetleysSurpassesYorkshireTea

What documents have you got from KC? It is very worrying if you have been issued a KC 5 generation pedigree for a dog that is a suspected cross breed.

Dottierichardson Fri 07-Dec-18 16:20:23

Had a small, nippy dog who hated baths and hated having his face cleaned. I got round this by using flannels and baby (no tears) shampoo, he still tried to nip sometimes when having his face washed but ended up nipping the flannel. On ankles and hands that's about training, both my dogs did that when they were small but took them to training classes and learnt techniques to redirect them, took a while but it stopped.

I think part of the problem is the idea that someone can sell you a 'docile' dog, any dog can be a problem, or react to situations that scare or over-excite them...no puppy is automatically 'docile' or will grow into an automatically calm dog, it's all about training. My current dog is from a very excitable, terrier breed, we took her to training classes weekly from a young age, and we did training with her every day until she was over two...and sometimes had to do extra training as sometimes they forget or lapse back into old behaviours. Puppies like children have to be taught things and we have to work with them, and it takes time/effort. If you have the time then that's fine, find a decent ADPT trainer, rewards-based, or find a home that can provide this for the puppy. Terriers in particular big or small need a lot of training and a lot of stimulation or they get bored and act out...but 10 months is incredibly young, your expectations are too high and your behaviourist should have redirected you to a decent training class.

Dottierichardson Fri 07-Dec-18 16:24:39

Also puppies will get more mouthy when teething so need lots of appropriate teething chews, and will go through phases, just like children and the terrible twos, so will need extra training at certain developmental stages.

Dottierichardson Fri 07-Dec-18 16:29:30

Finally reacting when face being touched can be the sign of an eye or ear infection/problem so should get that checked out. Pedigree dogs far more prone to these problems. And on that subject no breed has automatically got the traits claimed, like people they are individuals and will vary. Sure your children will take after you but will also have their own habits/ways of behaving, dog breeds no different!

Ihaventgottimeforthis Fri 07-Dec-18 17:46:34

Come on OP, grow a thicker skin.
Under the abrupt comments, the advice is good.
You had unrealistic expectations of what owning a puppy is like, you should not euthanise a puppy just because of natural behaviour, if the dog is not the right fit for you and your family then yes in the long run it is best to rehome.
I'd think on any dog lovers forum, peoples sympathies will be with the innocent animal who has been let down by its' owners, however well meaning and misguided they are.
So brush it off and don't try to guilt trip us for not protecting your feelings!

SlowNorris Fri 07-Dec-18 17:51:20

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Wolfiefan Fri 07-Dec-18 18:02:45

What exactly do you expect KC to do? confused
If this is a crossbreed then any papers relating to the pup being KC reg are fake. Even if the parents are registered the owners “moving away” screams puppy farmers moving on.
No puppies are calm. No puppy is trained after a few sessions of puppy classes.

Alfie190 Fri 07-Dec-18 18:37:47

You are just bored with him and want rid. Of course you do not put a 10 month old puppy to sleep!

Rehome to somebody that either knows what they are doing or is willing to learn. And do not ever get a pet again.

wombatron Fri 07-Dec-18 18:44:27

Some really holier than thou posters on this thread. OP asked, took advice and has a clearly defined path of action she'll be taking.She's already explained very early on why she assumed they would want to PTS - because half the bloody threads on here that suggest a dog that shows aggression say it needs to go/ that's what vets recommend. this isn't AIBU. How about we be a bit friendly to someone asking for help and advice and is probably a bit lost.

Op I think def take pup to a vet as you said you would if it happened as a reaction to movement to his eye - could be something there he's defending. One of mine had an ulcer and was very cautious of movement near it for quite some time

SlowNorris Fri 07-Dec-18 19:37:22

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wombatron Fri 07-Dec-18 19:42:17

She asked if she should. Presumably she doesn't keep the stuff at home so it would have been a trip to the vet, where the vet would probably give the same advice as she's been given here - it's a puppy thing, just rehome. Or to quote you.... do all morons on here think that if someone said yes she'd go outside and shoot it? 

Apply some common sense before mounting high horses!

SlowNorris Fri 07-Dec-18 20:21:43

I repeat, it’s not self-righteous/holier than thou to not condone killing a dog.

SlowNorris Fri 07-Dec-18 20:23:40

And quite frankly, if OP’s response to a puppy displaying puppy behaviour is to even consider killing it, I don’t think we can credit her with possessing any level of common sense to take the dog to a vet.

wombatron Fri 07-Dec-18 20:27:25

I'm talking about those that are really going off on one. Even I posted about rehoming as it seemed the OP couldn't cope.... there are some downright nasty posts here for someone who just really didn't know how it works.... even after she'd admitted that she got it wrong and just didn't understand. Not everyone has all the answers or knows how these things work - you only learn by asking (or google)

Wolfiefan Fri 07-Dec-18 20:42:33

Better to ask before you take on a “KC reg” crossbreed puppy from a puppy farmer. hmm

SlowNorris Fri 07-Dec-18 20:42:57

You actually believe people would need to google: ‘puppy bit me, should I PTS?’

If OP was capable of finding a dog to buy then she was capable of doing some very basic research too, such as how you shouldn’t kill your puppy when they don’t behave perfectly.

Applepudding2018 Fri 07-Dec-18 21:07:26

@TetleysSurpassesYorkshireTea

In your responses to the posters you consider to be 'judgemental' of you, you are actually ruder than their original comments to you.

Your subsequent posts state you have done a lot of research and training around your puppy yet you seem surprised that a 10 month pup will nip, bark and attempt to defend itself when it feels frightened/ threatened. Yes, to your little dog being bathed, squashed in a towel and having its face poked was frightening and he felt threatened.

You have posted that you are planning to rehome (even though subsequent posts seem to suggest that this isn't what you are doing). I really hope for everyone's sake that you do find a more appropriate home for your little dog.

MsAdorabelleDearheartVonLipwig Fri 07-Dec-18 23:14:08

I think that half the posters on this thread are professionally offended morons who love a good argument. How the hell does that help?

Read between the lines people. Obviously the Op is not about to viciously slaughter a puppy. Whether or not it came from a puppy farm is a bit irrelevant now and we know they’re bloody good these days, lots of people still fall for it or they wouldn’t keep trying it. Calm the fuck down and stop making the Op feel worse than she already does. It’s not AIBfuckingU.

Op I think you’ve just learnt that your particular dog doesn’t like being constrained and touched. That’s all. My dog wouldn’t like it either but as he’s a completely passive Labrador his response would probably be to wriggle away at top speed and send me flying.

WendyWoofer Fri 07-Dec-18 23:25:44

I admit i havent read the full thread. The OP asking whether she should kill a 10 month old puppy was enough for me.

Please place your puppy in a re-homing centre, where they will find a home for it with people who know what they are doing OP.

I'm gobsmacked that someone would put puppy and PTS in the same sentence! 😱

RLOU30 Fri 07-Dec-18 23:27:18

No it’s not AIBfuckingU but it is a forum and a question has been asked. The answer for most of us here is no you shouldn’t put your 10 month old puppy “to sleep” confused

cheesemongery Fri 07-Dec-18 23:34:16

I'd probably bite you if I was restrained in a towel and thought you were going to poke me in the eye. My mouth would be my only form of defence.

BettyBooJustDoinTheDoo Fri 07-Dec-18 23:38:45

Hear hear * Selavy* can’t believe what have just read from the OP, hopefully a vet if told the truth of this dogs behaviour would not put this dog to sleep. How could it even be a consideration, jeez.

penisbeakers Fri 07-Dec-18 23:40:21

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pigsDOfly Sat 08-Dec-18 13:56:29

@*MissAdorabelle*. I think most posters are reading between the lines and what they're seeing is someone who decided to take on a dog without having done any research on the subject at all.

So little does the OP know about dogs that she thinks it's okay to retrain a 10 month old puppy by wrapping it in a towel then trying, from the dog's point of view, to poke it in the eye whilst it has no way of running away or defending itself other than to snap. And when the poor thing defends itself by snapping she's suggesting that it's reasonable to get it pts.

That's why people are annoyed.

Of course where the puppy came from is irrelevant now. However, where the puppy goes from here and how it is rehomed is important, and that's whats concerning a lot of the posters because the OP doesn't seem to have a clue what she's doing.

pigsDOfly Sat 08-Dec-18 13:58:01

*restrain and 10 month old puppy not retrain.

reallyanotherone Sat 08-Dec-18 14:03:01

I would try and track down the breeder.

If they are indeed reputable they will take the dog back.

Strongly suspect they aren’t though. Have you got kc papers for the pup? Where did you find the breeders?

TetleysSurpassesYorkshireTea Sat 08-Dec-18 14:45:16

@Penisbeakers - please stop with the names and troll accusations.

DDog has been to the vet. All the incident was relayed to her, and she also accessed the behaviourists' notes (who is based within the vets).

Vet was concerned about DDog's attempt to bite. As what I was doing to him is something he is well used to, and he hasn't objected to that intervention before. Also, the bite as described, was not within the realms of normal nipping by DDog. Vet said she would check for any source of eye pain or pain elsewhere. If no source could be found, and the attempts to bite increased then PTS may be kindest as DDog may have something akin to Rage Syndrome. This had already been flagged by the Behaviourist as a possibility with DDog due to sudden behaviour changes she has witnessed.

DDog got a full MOT and has hip pain. Common in pedigree Maltese (DDog is apparently definitely NOT a cross breed). This is now being treated and could explain the bite attempt.

Thank you for all the advice received here. It is lovely to know there are so many people who are passionate in their defence of animals.

I so wonder whether the replies would have been similar if I DDog was a GS, Rotty, Doberman, or Staffy - all of which we have had within the wider family from puppies and never made a similar bite attempt.

ADastardlyThing Sat 08-Dec-18 15:00:09

Find a different vet and behaviourist if you're going to to keep the puppy but I hope you rehome.

adaline Sat 08-Dec-18 15:12:02

Wait - your vet suggested putting a 10 month old PUPPY to sleep because it tried to nip you whilst it was being restrained and poked around in the face?

Dogs often tolerate things for a while before snapping. You see it all the time - "well, the kids have always pulled his ears/kissed his face/gone near his bowl and it's never happened before!" - dogs often show distress signals before biting but owners often ignore them because the dog isn't snapping or growling.

And yes, my response would be the same regardless of breed. This isn't a fully grown adult dog - it's a puppy who is still learning how to behave. Puppies nip - often until they're about 18 months old or so. They mouth and are still learning the right way to act around people and in different situations.

BettyBooJustDoinTheDoo Sat 08-Dec-18 15:19:46

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OrcinusOrca Sat 08-Dec-18 15:24:46

I would rehome. It doesn't sound like you've had any luck in dealing with the behaviour so I would encourage you to find somebody more experienced to take him.

Some dogs are bitey/nippy dogs. As much as you can work hard with them, you can't ever trust them 100%. I have one, she is very closely bonded to me and never ever bites DH or I or family really, but she can get protective and needs firm handling when she does. She is manageable, and I am very confident in dealing with her. It would also be pretty impossible for her to be rehomed successfully. If it was a dog I had from a puppy, and I was still struggling nearly a year down the line and had DC, I think I would hold my hands up and say it's too much. I would not PTS though, there are many more options. I would contact the breed rescue if you do not think the breeder is suitable to offer him back to.

Also, with regard to what you said about the bath and wrapped up in a towel having cuddles. Dogs are animals, they don't need to be treated like small children. I know plenty of small dogs who react badly to being picked up etc. It sounds like he is an unhappy little thing if he is snapping and growling so much. He doesn't sound like he enjoys people in his space really.

BiteyShark Sat 08-Dec-18 15:31:30

If my vet suggested Rage syndrome based on a description of a young dog that got upset at being manhandled I would be going somewhere else.

pigsDOfly Sat 08-Dec-18 15:55:49

Rage syndrome? Okay.

And your vet is diagnosing that, or something similar, in a 10 month old nippy puppy and suggesting the puppy might be better off being pts?

Is your vet a specialist in neurological conditions? If not and you and she firmly believe that puppy has Rage Syndrome then I suggest you ask for a referral to a specialist before having the poor thing killed for nothing more than defending itself and being a nippy puppy.

Better still, rehome it, but before you do that get a different vet.

It's an adolescent dog, who will be at an age when it is starting to assert itself, and yes, its behaviour will be changing from that of a very young puppy. At the moment it's telling you it doesn't like to be restrained and poked in the eye.

ExcitedForChristmas18 Sat 08-Dec-18 16:04:12

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VenelopeVonSweetz Sat 08-Dec-18 16:08:34

Rehome the poor Dog. It sounds like you have taken on more than you can chew and are trying to justify your reasoning for PTS.

I would day the same regardless of the breed.

Wolfiefan Sat 08-Dec-18 18:39:05

Yesterday it was a cross.
Now today it is a Maltese and they have hip problems.
Rage syndrome is extremely rare and not prevalent in Maltese if that’s what the dog is now.
Dogs bite when they are uncomfortable. Just because they tolerated something in the past without biting doesn’t mean they are happy about it.

pigsDOfly Sat 08-Dec-18 18:58:12

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Phuquocdreams Sat 08-Dec-18 19:05:34

Would you ever just rehome the poor puppy rather than trying to justify killing it. There isnt an ounce of affection or concern for it in your posts. It didn’t even actually bite!

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