Worried about friend possible getting a dog

[SauvingnonBlanketyBlanc]

She got a rescue dog a year or so ago which was a big Staffy cross,it had had a rubbish life with previous owners,being caged all the time even when owners were in. Anyway it was obviously too big for her and she caged it a lot too,even had it on a lead in the house (I saw all of this).One evening I had a phone call to say she had rung the rspca and was having it collected and put down! When I asked why she said it had bit her dd 3 on the hand as she was pulling it's ears! My dh is a dog lover like me and bred staffies for a while,he says those type of dogs wouldn't just bite 'a bit' they would warn you or do a lot of damage.For what its worth i saw the childs hand the next day and was no mark.Im really worried that if she gets another the same thing will happen again.Am I being silly and nosey or would you say this is justified worry for future dog?

[adaline]

Where did she get the dog from in the first place? I don't think any rescue would rehome a dog from that kind of background to a home with a small child in it, so presumably she got it from Gumtree or similar, didn't bother to do any research or training, or teach her DD how to behave around dogs, and is now angry the dog has bitten?

Unfortunately due to the actions of humans this dog will now be PTS. It's sad but no-one will re-home a huge staff cross that has a history of biting children. Dogs who aren't socialised and trained sadly don't tend to do well in rescue centres.

[SauvingnonBlanketyBlanc]

Hi she got it from a neighbour and knew it's history ,the dog was put to sleep the same day.I was so upset and angry at the time i still am I suppose.

[RedDeadRoach]

Well to be fair it is her dog and if it bit her child then there's plenty of people who would say that it should be put down because it's unpredictable. It's pretty silly to suggest that just because the dog didn't leave a lasting injury that it's not dangerous to her child . Personally I think it's completely irresponsible to rehome a dog that has bitten someone. You're just passing the problem off to someone else. She might be able to provide a good home for the right dog. It's really none of your business either way.

[Oliversmumsarmy]

Dog obviously not exercised or trained cooped up in the house or caged

Child pulls dogs ears.

I think my reply would have been what the fuck do you expect

[adaline]

Hi she got it from a neighbour and knew it's history

Then your friend is a fucking idiot. People who re-home untrained dogs into homes with small children are fools.

[SauvingnonBlanketyBlanc]

@RedDeadRoach sorry I don't agree a dog will always react if a child is tormenting it,death isn't always the answer

[SauvingnonBlanketyBlanc]

@adaline I know,I'm an experienced dog owner and I told her what she should expect.She is a fucking idiot.

[adaline]

It's pretty silly to suggest that just because the dog didn't leave a lasting injury that it's not dangerous to her child

Actually I would argue that the child was dangerous to the dog. I don't know why people think it's okay to allow small children to pull dogs ears and tails, get into their beds and crates, ride them around the house and pull them about for cuddles, and then when the dog reacts to say "no, I don't like this" they get punished.

If the dog meant to hurt her, he would have. The fact that there was no mark or blood says this was a warning bite. And I would bet anything that there had been other stress signs the owner had ignored - ears back, yawning, licking of lips, growling, for example. Although a lot of people have trained their dogs not to growl when they're unhappy which means they go straight to a warning nip because they have no other choice!

[spotsoddsocks]

Fgs! she took on a dog knowing it's history, kept it in a cage and clearly allowed her dd to pull on its ears until the dog got fed up and bit the child. Stupid women. This could of been so much worse, the dog could of completely lost it and full on attacked her dd. Poor dog. I really hope she doesn't get another one.

[jammydodger5]

Both incredibly stupid of the neighbour and your friend to consider rehousing the dog with your friend with a small child considering the dogs history

Any dog can be dangerous and dogs usually give a warning and then will bite
Why was she letting her child pull the dogs ears what did she expect would happen?

[NotANotMan]

You think she lied about the bite to get the dog put to sleep?
I've tried to get the RSPCA to take in a neglected dog and they wouldn't do it. The owner was desperate (physically couldn't look after it) and the dog was miserable but they wouldn't. I imagine that inventing an attack would have been the only way to get it gone.
If she did that she shouldn't own a dog ever again.

[SauvingnonBlanketyBlanc]

@NotaNotMan yes we did suspect that's what happened I didn't want to put that here in case got flamed

[SpiderCid]

What she did was terrible, but has she shown interest in getting another dog?

[SauvingnonBlanketyBlanc]

@spider yes that's why I've posted as it's upset me that she would consider it,she's been tagging her dh in dog for sale ads etc

[Oliversmumsarmy]

I think as a friend you have to point out that if she didn’t train or exercise the previous dog and didn’t teach her child not to pull the dogs ears then ended up with her child being bitten what sort of thing is she expecting this time.

[Monty27]

Would you prefer a child to die before a dog is put down?

[missbattenburg]

monty27 the problem with that logic is that it leads to all dogs being put down at birth. Dogs that bite and dogs that do not are not two exclusive groups. They are the same. All dogs bite. Just like all humans argue. At which point they will do so is somewhere on a gradual scale, according to what the dog can tolerate.

It sounds like the last dog was very clear what he could and could not tolerate and even when he'd reached breaking point was still in control enough not to break skin. That action is exactly what the dog should do according to dog laws of behaviour. It was not an act of out of control aggression. It was - to any socialised dog - the natural next step when all previous ones have been ignored.

What I am tying to put across is that (by the sounds of it) that dog was not an aberration, it was a normal dog. To pts for that is to pts for just being a dog. No more.

There are dangerous dogs, for sure. They are those that no longer (or never learned to) use a gradual escalation of aggression and go straight to the highest level without waiting or warning. They are dangerous because without warning you have no chance to stop doing the thing that frightens the dog and because, if a dog means to properly hurt, it will absolutely do so - unless there is a physical barrier of some sort (muzzle, lead, cage etc). As a society we have to make a decision about how ethical it is to try and work with that dog to make it safe again and the likelihood of success. In some cases it is stressful to the dog, takes up resources that could help dozens of easier dogs and has no guarantee of success. That's when euthanasia becomes a viable option

[missbattenburg]

Sorry also meant to add that the idea there are good dogs that never snap and bad ones that do and that the two groups are exclusive, leads to a false sense of safety. People thinking 'my good dog would NEVER do that'.

All dogs are capable of it and so all owners should be treating dogs with kindness and respect and keeping an eye out for their dog being stressed or uncomfortable with a situation. All children should be actively monitored around dogs because they may be unable to keep an eye out themselves.

[AvocadosBeforeMortgages]

This sort of situation is why I'm always rather wary of the attitude often found on less specialist MN boards that a dog that has bitten a child is the worst of the worst and should be put down without a second thought.

Very often the child has been irritating or even hurting the dog, the dog has given a range of signals that it's unhappy (x-ref the ladder of aggression) and when all its peaceable signals are ignored it ends up at the point where it feels it has no option but to bite as a last resort. Completely avoidable with proper supervision and training of the child in question. Dogs that will bite a child for no good reason are really very rare, and even then most of those can be safely rehomed to a child-free home with proper precautions in place.

[pigsDOfly]

Just wondering how the pps saying the dog is unpredictable and dangerous would react if someone started pulling their ears and it hurt. I suspect they wouldn't be best pleased either.

This dog didn't maul the child, it didn't even leave a mark or break the skin. In fact it sounds like it was pretty restrained in it's reaction and just showed it wasn't unhappy, which is totally acceptable as far as dogs are concerned.

From the sound of the dog's owner, I very much doubt she would have had the first idea of the signs leading up to a full blown attack, let alone the early signs that the dog is distressed or unhappy with the child's behaviour anyway, as she clearly had no idea that allowing a child to mistreat an animal is unfair, stupid and dangerous.

My small dog has never shown any signs of aggression to anyone, but I always watch her and my DGC when they're around one another because I don't want her put in a position where she might feel the need to defend herself, both for the children's sake and for her's.

My DGC have grown up with dogs and have been taught not to pull them around so fortunately, the worst they do is stroke her back. If they start trying to chase her, as they can while playing with their own dogs, I stop it as I know she doesn't like it.

Dogs are not toys to be poked and prodded.

[Oliversmumsarmy]

Would you prefer a child to die before a dog is put down

No but I would prefer dog owners like ops friend to take responsibility and train the dog, give it proper exercise 2 or 3 times per day. Actually out of the house in a field or park or just in the back garden throwing balls or toys for a good run around and supervise and tell children to be kind to dogs so they don’t go pulling a dogs ears/tails etc because if they do that they will get bitten.

By the sound of it ops friend is not capable or hasn’t the time to put into caring for a dog and history will just repeat itself