Ban on shock collars in England

(36 Posts)
SilverHairedCat Mon 27-Aug-18 18:29:50

Great news is afoot!

Shock collars are to be banned in England:

Electric shock collars for pets to be banned - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-45320038

Wales and Scotland already have bans coming but I don't know about Ireland / NI.

I saw two dogs at a campsite last week with shock collars on for barking - sadly their owners had been advised to use them by a behaviourist.

However, their friend was also a dominance theory trainer (as in don't let dog sit higher than you, don't allow dog to eat before you do, don't give a dog a cuddle variety) so I guess they were getting mixed advice from confused sources.

Any thoughts?

OP’s posts: |
Asdf12345 Mon 27-Aug-18 18:32:39

I'm not sure this is entirely a step forwards. Yes shock collars can be used inappropriately but they are also a powerful tool for training recalcitrant dogs when all else fails, without them the only remaining option will be rehoming or euthanasia for such dogs.

HoleyCoMoley Mon 27-Aug-18 18:34:19

Thank goodness theyve been banned, they are awful things, whats the point in trying one on a cat. How would anyone like to have up to 6,000v put through themselves, I am also really pleased about pet shops and puppy farms being banned from selling animals. A dominance theory trainer, what on earth is that about.confused

Pissedoffdotcom Mon 27-Aug-18 18:35:07

About bloody time. There is no place for bullying a dog into submission & it can be bloody dangerous. I'm sick of seeing people telling me their dogs are better thanks to shock collars - you only have to watch the dog's behaviour to see it is an animal on edge. If you cannot train a dog without shocking it into obedience you shouldn't own one. And trainers who use them make me sick

SilverHairedCat Mon 27-Aug-18 18:42:21

@Asdf12345 Have you seen them used? I'm genuinely interested in the success stories.

OP’s posts: |
ThatFridayFeeling Mon 27-Aug-18 19:17:09

I use one but only on walks and as a tool when she's too distracted to be recalled. The collar has a vibrate function which on an hours walk is used maybe twice (if at all) the shock is used rarely and only if there's a dangerous situation e.g. other animals around such as horses or other dogd. She's not great with other dogs tbh and I fear our only option will be a muzzle now but that's the (soon to be) law I guess.

Pissedoffdotcom Mon 27-Aug-18 19:17:46

People who use them define success as their dog no longer chasing cars/small animals/running off/spinning etc. In fact all they have done is basically remotely beat their dog into behaving. A dog on edge is dangerous as hell because they can no longer tell us they are uncomfortable with something

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Ylvamoon Mon 27-Aug-18 19:41:52

For those of you (ThatFridayFeeling & Asdf12345) please read the link below:
www.thekennelclub.org.uk/our-resources/kennel-club-campaigns/electric-shock-collars

... and if that is not enough, maybe you can wear it yourself and let your DC control you for a day.... As we all know, parents have Lots of unwanted, natural behaviours that need correcting!

ThatFridayFeeling Mon 27-Aug-18 19:47:24

I was sharing my experience for the OP. I will obviously fully comply with the law when it passes but I've found it helpful. I'm aware of the Kennel Club advice. I wasn't seeking anyone else's opinion on it.

Vallahalagonebutnotforgotten Mon 27-Aug-18 19:52:18

<just walk on by............and hide thread>

Chocolate50 Mon 27-Aug-18 19:59:51

I have a dog grooming salon & i can tell you these collars are nasty- I had one dog come in with bleeding marks under their neck due to one. Any tool like this needs banning. I've no good stories about their use.

mummabearfourbabybears Mon 27-Aug-18 20:02:19

Glad they're banned but seems slightly ludicrous from a society that takes £millions every year and promotes severe deformities in dog breeds. Pugs, French bulldogs, If fact any brachiocephalic breeds that weren't around 100-80 years ago and alsatians with their awful rounded spines. Absolutely abhorrent organisation!

Asdf12345 Mon 27-Aug-18 20:05:37

@silverhairedcat

One was a young working lab who would shake game every time they picked it up, a few sessions and the behaviour was completely fixed. It never saw the collar again. The other was a terrier on last chance saloon regarding biting postmen and other visitors. I would personally have had it put down but after a few weeks having a shock at the slightest hint of aggression towards people it hides under the shed when someone unfamiliar comes. Given it is only still alive because of the (no optimal) fix provided by the collar I call this a success story.

The huge advantage of the shock collar for more basic training is that you can instantly give feedback as soon as a behaviour is displayed, the shaking game for instance where you could never apply another negative stimulus appropriately.

I should make it clear that I do not feel shock collars are going to be positively used with pets the vast majority of the time. If behaviour has got so bad people feel it should be used with a pet animal, like that terrier had been, other bigger problems likely with the owner are to blame. When training for work or attempting to rescue a dog from euthanasia however I feel they can be very powerful tools when used appropriately.

Pissedoffdotcom Mon 27-Aug-18 20:13:56

The terrier hiding under the shed any time someone unfamiliar came around is incredibly sad. The dog has basically been taught to fear anybody it does not know. What quality of life does the poor thing have?! Sorry but i find that disgusting, not something i would label a 'success'

Asdf12345 Mon 27-Aug-18 20:34:24

It isn't what I would choose for a dog, but would you rather it had been put to sleep? Those are the decisions this produces, dogs that could have a life having to be put down because their behaviour has been allowed to deteriorate too far to be worth fixing.

It would be far better that the terrier had been properly trained to begin with and not allowed to run wild snapping at everything until the inevitable happened. I feel it is better for the dog that it now lives outside, most of the time very happily, keeping the rats down for my mate. If it bites someone again or looks like it tries to it won't get another chance.

Grasslands Mon 27-Aug-18 20:44:32

We have and use a Dogtra E collar on our lovely Airedale. He only wears it when off leash hiking in the bush. It has a vibrate setting as well as a shock setting.
We have both deer and bears in the woods, and wonder if tempted with wild animals if he would come back to us as quickly as we might like.
We had a professional dog trainer teach us how to use it. His recall and behaviour improved immediately (jumped up on people).
It’s now been 5 years and thanks to his collar has allowed him to run free and enjoy the wild outdoors. We can take him into off leash busier trails and not worry about him jumping on people walking or biking.

tabulahrasa Mon 27-Aug-18 20:52:40

“It isn't what I would choose for a dog, but would you rather it had been put to sleep?”

Well I’d have my dog PTS rather than make him so terrified that he’s going to be electrocuted when the postman comes that he’s hiding under a shed tbh.

Pissedoffdotcom Mon 27-Aug-18 21:01:50

I had a staff who attacked the postman every time he saw him. Came to me as a six year old rescue on a bite warning from the police. Turns out dear old innocent postie used to kick shit out him any time he saw him postie got caught on CCTV
At no point would i ever consider using a shock collar on him. With a lot of hard work he soon looked forward to my postie coming as postie meant food. A shock collar would have reinforced that the postie was something dangerous.

I detest the whole idea that a dog being alive is the ultimate goal. Its why so many idiots get away with opening shoddy 'rescues' - because people think alive means saved. Does it bollocks. Clearly your mate has enough visitors on top of the postie that they felt warranted it being zapped to the point of being terrified of strangers. Sorry, no matter how you dress that up it is cruel.

For people who use them to reinforce recall around distractions, huh?! If your dog isn't spot on with recall don't let it off. I know of two 'trainers' in Scotland who specialised in these collars & having watched them 'train' owners how to use them can safely say they are fucking cruel bastards. Ditto to 'trainers' who 'train' people with prong collars. The psychological damage those things do to dogs is outrageous.

tabulahrasa Mon 27-Aug-18 21:03:43

“I fear our only option will be a muzzle”

Muzzles are great btw, they give a really clear message to other owners, honestLyn, they make your life so much easier.

I trained mine to wear it happily before taking him out in it, so when I pick it up he comes rushing over for it, it’s now just part of what he sees as his walking stuff, same as his lead smile yes it means no ball games in public places, but everything else isn’t an issue, he can pick up fluffy toys with it on and you can still play food based games and train with it on.

For a dog that needs one, they’re really not a bad thing.

Pissedoffdotcom Mon 27-Aug-18 21:05:40

If every dog was crate & muzzle trained it would be a huge bonus. You never know when your dog might need to spend time in a crate - at the vets, if god forbid you have an accident & they need containing etc - and a muzzle ditto.

ThatFridayFeeling Mon 27-Aug-18 21:35:50

@tabulahrasa thanks for your post! That's really helpful!!

Kennycalmit Tue 28-Aug-18 07:44:21

There’s never any excuse for these collars

If you have to use a muzzle then so be it. They aren’t half as bad as what some people think. Besides if you’ve got to use an electric shock for your dog to come back to you, perhaps 1) you shouldn’t have the dog off the lead, and 2) you should be looking at WHY the dog isn’t coming back?

If you’re using the collars to stop barking there are plenty other ways to stop excessive barking without having to cause pain. It’s like every time your child moans, you wouldn’t slap them would you?

TooTrueToBeGood Tue 28-Aug-18 07:51:27

Poor terrier. My previous dog was a rescue and when we got him he was very aggressive towards the postie. Took me a couple of weeks demonstrating that the postie was a friend, getting postie to make a fuss of dog and give him a treat to correct that. Terrorising a dog is never the best or right way to correct behaviour.

Tika77 Tue 28-Aug-18 07:53:40

There will soon be loads of dogs given up for adoptions and pts in my opinion.

Grasslands Tue 28-Aug-18 17:08:54

I’m in Canada and it isn’t often that I see a dog with one on except in the off leash sites are they really that common in the UK that there would be an increase in adoptions?

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