Puppy refusing to be crated at night

[geekone]

Hi
So suddenly our 5.5 month puppy is refusing to get into his crate at night time. He will happily wander out and in and have a snooze there during the day with the door open but he’s clever and won’t go in at night time jumps out of the way etc when we are sitting by it. 2 nights ago I picked his front legs up and put him in said night night and closed the door and he barked for 30 mins I went through calmed him down but he barked again then gave up. He is a giant dog and is already 25kg so I can’t fight him into the crate and I don’t want him to hate it. He is brilliant during the day and we leave him in the kitchen if we have to go out, he never pee’s chews or anything so my DH thought we should leave him with the crate open during the night but with free reign of the kitchen. He was quiet but he peed a lake this is a dog that can hold for 1 hours no problem so being loose during the night and seeing the daylight (his crate is covered) confused him.
What do I do? Should I go back to treats to get him in? What if he barks after the treat? He has been fabulous up till now often taking himself to bed.
Little bugger it’s a good job I love him!

[BiteyShark]

If I got this correctly you gave him free reign of the kitchen all night and he was fine but peeded.

If you don't want to continue with the crate you are going to have to get up to let him pee as he obviously held it because he didn't want to mess his crate up but as he doesn't have to sleep in it he found a toilet area. If you wait until he wakes you are going to have to be quick to take him out but if you have a baby monitor you might hear him in time.

At that age mine was just starting to get a bit stroppy and around 6 months old he definitely started to hit the stubborn stage so I just had to keep reinforcing everything.

[adaline]

I would give him free range of the kitchen but take him out to pee. When do you go to bed and get up?

I think you need to take him when you go to bed even if that means waking him, and then again first thing in the morning. If that doesn't help one of you needs to get up in the night.

I assume he won't go in his crate overnight because he knows he'll the toilet and he doesn't want to mess his bed/sleeping area.

It's normal for six month old puppies to need the toilet in the night - ours is dry most of the time but still needs letting out occasionally.

[geekone]

Thank you

No he has never toileted in his crate overnight not since we got him. He doesn’t even always rush to the door in the morning although 99% of the time he does so it’s not because he is worried about weeing in his crate. He goes for a wee last thing and first thing but his crate is always dry. I agree @biteyshark I think it’s because he needed and it wasn’t his bed so he just went. Also he could see the garden so if it was sunny then that won’t have helped.
He’s huge his crate is huge but he is getting big and so turning will be more of an effort in it now. It is the largest crate. We will entice him back in tonight with cheese and treats and hope he doesn’t bark. But we will have to suck it up I think and get up for a while during the night once we make the no crate decision. We know he can hold it in and his breed are well known for being like camels. He can go 5 hours during the day without peeing (I only know this because we got stuck in a major traffic jam and he was alone 3 hours more than he should have) he is a great dog has been easy to toilet train and crate train. I do think he has hit toddler stage so just going to have to be firm.

[yetwig]

If you still wanted to crate him at night, a large kong filled with something tasty would help with settling him in the crate?

[Lynne1Cat]

I hate the idea of any animal being in a cage. You really can't blame him for not wanting to be locked in it all night. Why not leave the crate door open and put a puppy pad nearby?

[starcrossedseahorse]

I know that they are horribly popular but I would never crate any dog of mine and I have had a lot of dogs. It's a cage and Lynne's suggestion above seems to be the most sensible if you must have it. The fact that you say that he struggles to turn around in it is dreadful.

I do not like the sound of 'being firm' with him in order to cram him in to a cage that he does not want to go in. Why on earth are you using it anyway?

[starcrossedseahorse]

themuttyprofessor.co.uk/2017/07/20/crate-debate-crate-not-crate/

[RossPoldarksFloozie]

I agree with the poster above, it's awful you are going to "be firm" to keep a dog in a crate that it can't turn around in. Disgusting behaviour IMO.

[adaline]

But OP, you said he can barely turn around in his crate - forcing him in there is cruel.

I think crates have their place and some dogs thrive having a safe space to hide from the hustle and bustle of a family, but not all dogs will take to them and I don't think it it's right to make them stay in one, especially one that's clearly far too small.

Please think of another tactic.

[geekone]

Ok, I am suddenly evil.

No his crate isn’t too small it’s an XXL crate he can curl his body up into only one half of it but compared to when he was little there will be less turning space but he can circle round in it if he pleases.

The to crate or not to crate in general debate isn’t one I came in to engage in. I came on to see how to work with my suddenly stubborn puppy when previously he hadn’t been

He hasn’t been back in at night time but happily went into it today to travel
In the car. He likes the crate in general but has decided to be a bit of an arse about it at night, because toddler stage.

Being firm with your dog is important I am not sure why there is a waive of PPs against being firm with my dog, this was in reference to a comment by @biteyshark and I agree at this stage I have to be firm or he will walk all over me.

Anyhoo thanks for actual advice and not crate hating advice.

[starcrossedseahorse]

Being 'firm' with your dog is absolutely not important. He will not 'walk all over you' if you treat him with love and kindness - that should underpin all of your dealings with him. He is very much a puppy still.

Leave his cage open and let him go in and out at night. Why the need to lock him in?

You sound like one of those foolish people who believes in dominance theory. Do some reading and update your approach for the sake of your dog.

[tabulahrasa]

I’m not anti-crate, I use one...

But, if he’s not wanting to go in at night, you either need to decide whether you’re going to do some work on that or let him be loose.

I’d be a bit worried that actually you are leaving him in it too long if what happened was a huge pee, it kind of suggests that usually he does need a pee, but feels unable to go.

To me that’s two separate issues.

What breed is he btw? I also have an XXL crate, there’s only a few breeds I can think of that would need bigger than that.

[geekone]

Ha well nice to know you put on your judgy pants tonight.
My dog is well cared for and loved and he gets treats for good things and a firm no when he does undesirable things like jump or try to take food off the table.
Dogs like children have to learn no and need a firm hand. Firm does not mean slapping with a newspaper or screaming at them but when I say come in a firm voice he comes he has been able to be walked off the lead since 13 weeks and other than having a sniff barely leaves outside. Form does not mean punishment it means being in charge so he doesn’t jump bark or bite at people so I can sit in a cafe and not worry about him terrorising the other patrons.

Don’t make snap judgments, just because I don’t treat my dog like a human doesn’t mean he isn’t treated with love.

We decided a crate was best for him after reading a lot of literature and speaking with professionals. He won’t go in at night anymore so what would the point of leaving the crate open. Of you had read my pp you would have read that he hasn’t been back in at night so again no need to leave the door open and he is in it only in the van and had no issue getting in it then. I would say leaving the door open then might be slightly dangerous unless I want a giant puppy on my knee.

[geekone]

My side not *outside.

[geekone]

@tabulahrasa we decided to ditch the crate no sense in persuading him in at night he has been great. We get up at 6 for a wee and then back to bed. We were leaving him in his crate for so long as I was coming down earlier to let him out and he wouldn’t get out of the crate just looked at me so we slowly moved from 6.30 to 7.30.
He has been great out of the crate so all good no giant crate in my kitchen.
He is a giant Schnauzer so pretty huge 24kg already but a big gentle giant. Weirdly no problem with the crate at any other time of the day. Also never barks for a wee at night just happy to wait for us to come down. I think night 1 of no crate was an anomaly.
Thanks for the help.

[tabulahrasa]

“we decided to ditch the crate no sense in persuading him in at night he has been great.”

Ah cool, it had read like that was still temporary

Yeah, he’d not get too big for it though, I can fit in mine next to my Rottie - so similar sized dog, lol.

[hamburgers]

Yay for no crate! We never created ddog but when he was a puppy we made sure there were plenty of pee pads around him until he was able to go through the night without needing to toilet.

[Dementedswan]

What breed?

I've a Labrador and from day one he's been crated, tbf he came from working stock so used to being confined. He's now 2 and I can't get rid of the crate as that's his safe zone.

With a pup that's likely to chew or mess is carry on trying the crate. We slept downstairs with him in his crate for a few weeks when we brought him home. Blankets over the top like a cosy den and trained him the command bed. Kids not allowed in his crate so it's well and truly his space.

[geekone]

@Dementedswan Giant Schnauzer he’s super calm and not a chewer, we are lucky.

He loved the crate up until Monday happily went to bed by himself. Who knows why. He seems really happy in the kitchen

[starcrossedseahorse]

I am glad that you have ditched the cage. The point of leaving it open would be that he could use it as a bed if he wanted to.