Dog only does things for food.

[Headinthedrawer]

Sorry for the clunky thread title.My 8 month mini poodle has had 2 lots of puppy classes both reward based.We have loved them.However.She has never learnt to sit or lie down without me either holding food to lure her or thinking I'm holding food.If I say 'sit!' She just looks at me unless I draw my hand back over her head.If I say 'Lie down!' she will only do it if I lure her with a small treat.I suppose the idea of is you gradually remove the food and they respond to the vocal command but THIS isn't happening.She just looks at me.I really need her to sit when I ask her when we are out and about.My trainer just says remove the lure but doesn't tell me what to do if she doesn't respond.Any tips?

[SilverHairedCat]

Nope. Placemarking for inspiration. My dog (aged 2) looks seen off if you get her to do anything more complex than "sit" and fail to follow it up with a treat. Then refuses to do any more.

[Headinthedrawer]

That's not what I want to hear SilverHairedcat!😁

[SilverHairedCat]

Ha ha! Mine has husky stubbornness, and can be a PITA unless properly motivated. She is improving all the time, but still gets slightly narky if you don't produce food! 😁

[thegirlsallgrowedupnow]

OP, try using your training in situe. Sit before putting food bowl down, sit before putting lead on, sit quietly in car before you open door to let her out. All things she will want to happen. Also make training fun, I used to take a handful of breakfast and run around the house doing quick sits and downs using very happy voice and rewarding.

[missbattenburg]

Headinthedrawer don't use the lure as the reward.

Use one piece of food to lure into position (as you are doing) but don't give that piece to the dog. Use a different piece of food that you keep nearby (in bowl, for e.g.). Repeat this until you feel the dog really gets that the lure is not the reward and instead does the behaviour then looks to you to reach for the reward.

Then just use an empty hand as the lure (if the first step has been really learned the dog should follow your hand even though it has no food in it). Reward with a piece of food.

Gradually reduce how much you lure/move your hand until it is barely a flick in the right direction.

Hope that helps....

[arbrighton]

8mo is still young and with going to classes, you still have to practice

mini poodles are trainable but also too clever for their own good sometimes. Mine behaves when it suits her

[applesareredandgreen]

If I ask my dog to do anything without giving him his expected reward he gets quite cross with me!!

[pigsDOfly]

Well being a poodle she's very likely a smart little thing so she's probably worked out how not to do something for nothing.

The trick is for you to be smarter.

Missbattenburg's advice sounds good.

[Headinthedrawer]

Thank you all for replying.I'll keep going with your advice.The not giving her the food I lure her with and incorporating sit into our daily routine makes sense.She is very clever 😁

[fleshmarketclose]

Eric is a poodle cross and he is clever as well. We get round the "only performing for a treat" by not always giving a food reward. That way he tends to do as asked on the off chance of getting a reward instead of only doing as asked if there is a reward going. The poodle in them means you have to stay one step ahead IME. If he doesn't get food he gets a good scratch behind the ears instead and sometimes he gets a treat for no reason just to keep him keen I suppose. Seems to work for us anyway.

[thegirlsallgrowedupnow]

For my poodle cross using her brain is just as tiring as walks but she loves to learn and it really helps build a bond which in turn helps with recall and other hard stuff. Try teaching middle and touch, at the moment you may not see the value in these and as a result will be more relaxed and patient with getting it right and making it fun. At eight months I would be rewarding loads but as PP said , as they get older intermittent rewards work well and keeps them interested in earning them.

[Rubberduckies]

It sounds like you need to think of new ways of training, by rewarding the dog after it's done the right thing, rather than using the food to lure them.

Have you looked into clicker training? It gets them to use their brains - you don't use food to lure, you 'mark' with the clicking sound anything you like (so if dog sits down by choice) and then chuck a treat afterwards.

Hot zone game - get a towel or mat/dog bed and stand near it with a load of treats. Don't do or say anything. If dog interacts with the mat in anyway, looks at it, puts a paw on it etc even accidentally, chuck it a treat. Repeat. They get very excited that they can control you. 'If I go near this mat she just chucks me a treat!' Once they're doing it on purpose rather than by accident, start adding more 'rules' in your head. Still don't do or say anything, but be patient. Now only chuck a treat if they put 2 paws on. Then 3 etc. Most dogs try a sit at some point. Once they're more reliable, add commands to the behaviour they've learnt. Say bed when they move towards the bed. Good bed once they've done it. Say sit when they sit etc.

The other thing to try is 'it's your choice' basically removing commands a bit and having much more patience!

So if dog gets excited when you go to open the door, put hand on handle and then wait, and wait, and wait! Eventually most dogs will either sit or lie down staring longingly at you. Praise and say good sit and open the door.

Do the same for anything the dog likes to do, before it's dinner, when it sees the lead, before taking lead off at park. Make you that once they do what you want, you name it 'good SIT'

[MsAdorabelleDearheartVonLipwig]

Don’t give her the reward every time. That way she won’t know whether it’s coming or not.

[Cath2907]

I have a different problem. My pup is not massively bothered by a food based reward system. He likes chicken / sausage / egg / liver / etc. but can happily refuse if he doesn't feel like doing as he is asked. Having previously had a lab who lived for his food this is all rather odd to me!

[picklemepopcorn]

Victoria stillwell talks about how to manage this. Something about occasional 'jubilee' rewards, and occasional missed rewards. Dog gradually gets used to responding regardless of the reward.

[RawhideRingpiece]

Find a better trainer.

I teach dog training classes and it’s so easy to fall into the trap of luring for too long/making behaviour contingent on the dog seeing the treat.

I get people to move on from that ASAP because otherwise it’s so common to see people still luring the dog into,say, a down with either food or a hand signal for years!