Why oh why do people buy Gumtree puppies?

[Bubble2bubble]

I've just been sent a FB page of a family very local to me who bought a pug puppy from a Gumtree and and she died of parvo three days later.
I am sorry for them, and to have had their new pup die in their arms must have been truly awful.
They are now working with the RSPCA, and police and have been on local radio trying to get attention for the case, having discovered that the same seller was selling multiple breeds from several set-up addresses.
But really, to buy an unvaccinated, un-microchipped puppy from a 'breeder' on Gumtree , and to collect the pup half an hour after you see the ad - how could anyone think that was a good idea? I just don't know how many times the message has to be repeated :(

[missbattenburg]

In all honesty, I am starting to suspect people have heard the message. They just wilfully choose to ignore it. I guess it's like being told not to drink and drive or not to touch a plug with wet hands. People KNOW these things but to not do so is inconvenient to them so they convince themselves "it'll probably be alright". Getting a puppy the right way is a lot harder (and sometimes more expensive) than getting one this way so they go for the easier option and hope for the best.

Also, humans are shit at thinking about the hidden consequences of their actions that they don't have to face - otherwise we wouldn't have islands of waste plastics cluttering the oceans....

[rightsaidfrederickII]

Ignorance (not having heard the message before)
Lack of research
Stupidity (not thinking it through logically)
Not really caring about source so long as they get that fashionable breed puppy in time for Christmas
Reputable breeders / rescues being unwilling to sell to people in certain circumstances and those people turning to other sources to find a dog

I've very little sympathy for the owners, but at least they have held their hands up about where they went wrong and are seeking to educate others and stop them making the same idiotic decisions.

[Wolfiefan]

I agree. I can't believe anyone thinks that's a good idea. Unfortunately many people don't think of animals as any different to ordering off Amazon. They want something and don't see why they shouldn't have it or have it exactly when they want it.
It won't change until the law does.

[Bubble2bubble]

I am in Northern Ireland where it is actually now illegal to be in possession of a dog ( or a puppy no longer with the mother ) that is not microchipped. People should know this, Dog's Trust were running free microchipping sessions for months to get the message out there, but I have yet to hear of anyone being prosecuted for keeping unchipped unlicensed dogs.

[Jigglytuff]

People are fucking arseholes.

[RitaConnors]

When we wanted to get a dog we didn’t know where you get dogs. Apart from rescues. I still don’t know where you are supposed to go if you want a puppy that’s not from a puppy farm type place.

We did get a rescue on the end but there were sixteen people on the list for our dog we were just lucky as the home check man lived close to us so we managed to sneak up the list.

[Jigglytuff]

There are thousands of puppies in rescue.

www.dogsblog.com/category/age/0-1-years/page/2/

Here are over 30.

[Bubble2bubble]

Well yes, rescue is the most obvious place to look...:)

[Orangebird69]

They're either ignorant twats who haven't got a clue or selfish lazy wankers who don't care.

[Bubble2bubble]

Though you may not get your puppy in half an hour....

[W0rriedMum]

The problem with rescues is that they have tough rules around suitability - no children being the main one, experience required with that specific breed etc. I know someone who waited a year for a rescue deemed suitable and in the end went to a breeder.

Reputable breeders can charge 2K for a puppy (e.g. labradoodle) which most can't afford; hence the existence of puppy farms. I am not defending it of course.

[CornflakeHomunculus]

Very few breeds are as much as £2k from reputable breeders and usual prices for most breeds are substantially less than that. When it comes to puppies extremes of price, either low or high, generally warrant a very critical look at the breeder in question. Some puppy farms/dodgy breeders actually charge far more for their puppies than reputable breeders do, particularly those producing trendy crosses or "rare" colours.

For example, a quick look on Champdogs suggests you can get a lab puppy from pretty thoroughly health tested parents (good hip and elbow scores, current eye tests, at least the KC/breed club recommended DNA tests) and with a lower than average COI for around £900. On the other hand, there's a breeder who churns out silver labs using a moderately health tested stud dog (some DNA tests done but no elbow score or eye tests and a hip score more than double the breed average) on bitches with little to no health testing and charges £2500 a pup...

Another pertinent example given how popular the breed currently is; French bulldogs. Puppies from thoroughly health tested parents look to be around £1800-£2000, including a quite moderate looking litter on Champdogs where both parents have attained the breed club's Silver Health Certificate (which is very thorough). A quick look on free ad sites and you can very easily find litters from completely un-health tested parents with awful conformation priced at as much as £10k because they're a "rare" colour.

I don't believe most people who end up buying from a puppy farm/dealer, pet shop or BYB do so because they can't afford a puppy from a decent breeder. I've no doubt some people are genuinely caught out but puppy farming/dealing is a massive business and I don't think there are enough naïve puppy buyers out there to keep them all going. Wilful ignorance is a huge issue now. The information is all out there and very easy to find but people don't want to know because it might interfere with them getting the exact breed/cross/colour of puppy they want, when they want it with zero questions asked.

[Bubble2bubble]

Fashionable breed puppies here are going on Gumtree from around £800.

Most rescues ask for between £100 and £200 for a fully vaccinated, healthy pup.

The local pound has a constant stream of puppies which you can get for £50 - microchipped but not vaccinated.

I agree with Cornflake - it's a lot less about the money than about getting what you want today.

My foster pup is going to a home with children next week - not all rescues have a blanket ban.

[ZigZagandDustin]

I got a fab pup on gumtree. Not expensive but she came vaccinated and with her papers and from a family where I got to meet her with her mother, siblings and grandmother in the family home. See her run around in the garden and play with the families kids. Also hear about her diet and training she'd had so far from the seller. Unexpectedly she's turned out to be show quality, I was just looking for a good family dog.

Gumtree is just a way to let people know you have pups for sale, you can still do due diligence.

And for the record we did visit rescue centres. Not a single pup in any. And not a single dog they said was suitable with kids.

[MumMoselle]

We found our Spaniel on Gumtree. We have had dogs for many years and were prepared to walk away if we felt that there was anything suspicious. All went well, we were completely vetted by the owner and definitely had a happy outcome.
We saw the mum, the whole litter and are still in touch with the breeder and other dogs from the litter.

[ZigZagandDustin]

MumMoselle, I wonder if our spaniels are related😀

[SummatFishyEre]

at the idea that there would be a reputable breeder of labradoodles

[Wolfiefan]

at the idea that there would be one on Gumtree.

[W0rriedMum]

grin at the idea that there would be a reputable breeder of labradoodles

Why is this? I know people who got all kinds of poodle crosses from breeders - are you saying all these breeders are crooks? Cavapoos, cockerpoos, labradoodles etc.

I am enuinely interested and not picking a fight. I don't have one of these dogs (nor a French bulldog!) but know a lot of them!

[picklemepopcorn]

Because people think they have a good chance of successfully getting the pup they want, without too many problems. They are playing roulette and think the odds are in their favour. They do not care about the other dogs, the mother, the sick siblings, as long as their dog is ok.

[Wolfiefan]

@W0rriedMum
Because breeders breed for a reason. If that is to produce a working dog they will do their absolute best to produce healthy puppies. If it's a pedigree breeder who is passionate about the breed they will want to continue their bloodlines and work to preserve the best (health and confirmation etc) of a breed. A designer cross is bred for money. Breeders can churn them out and make stupid money. Few people buying them have any idea of potential health issues or even what they are taking on. Beyond the fact it looks cute. And they met one once they liked.

[ZigZagandDustin]

So is crossing two breeds more likely to lead to health problems? I always thought mongrels had typically less health problems.

[Wolfiefan]

@ZigZagandDustin
It's not that simple or clear cut. Lots of pedigrees have lots of potential health issues. Decent breeders health test parents for all sorts of conditions before breeding.
A cross breed can inherit the worst of both breeds. And often the breeders don't do the tests. A labradoodle puppy would mean a set of Labrador health tests on one parent and poodle tests on the other IYSWIM. It's expensive. And many people don't know what tests should be done.

[tabulahrasa]

"I always thought mongrels had typically less health problems."

Proper mongrels, bred by dogs through natural selection would have... crosses of breeds with inheritable conditions, especially when they both have the same health conditions - not so much.

[CornflakeHomunculus]

I always thought mongrels had typically less health problems.

As previous posters have said, it's not quite as black and white as that.

On average proper mongrels (i.e. dogs of thoroughly mixed heritage) are less likely to suffer from inherited health issues but it's absolutely not a guarantee.

Many of the most popular crosses are between breeds that share some of the same heritable health issues which means the resulting puppies could potentially be affected by them.

Outcrossing/cross breeding is a really useful tool for dealing with specific health issues within a breed (the LUA Dalmatians are an excellent example of this) and for increasing genetic diversity (which is something pedigree breeds desperately need) but it's not a magic bullet and needs to be done carefully in order to be beneficial.

Whatever type of dog someone is breeding they need to be doing the appropriate health testing for the breed or breeds involved, taking care with genetic diversity as much as they possibly can and also aiming for good, sound physical structure to maximise the chances of good health for the puppies they're producing.