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Cavachon/ cavalier

(37 Posts)
Nannyplumbrocks Mon 23-Oct-17 12:04:57

Has anyone got a cavachon or a cavalier? Im utterly smitten with these dogs and would love to hear from anyone with these breeds. Im considering our first family dog and cant decide which. Any pros/ cons for either?

LazySusan11 Mon 23-Oct-17 12:09:02

We used to have a King Charles Cavalier, she was the most loving and loyal dog. Loved her cuddles, walks, wasn’t very hairy. She was very intelligent and fancied herself as royalty She would wait by the front door everyday and soon after my dad would come home didn’t matter what time of the day.

I’d have another in a heartbeat, she lived until she was 12.

Nannyplumbrocks Mon 23-Oct-17 12:16:04

Sounds like a darling!

nancy75 Mon 23-Oct-17 12:16:34

My Nan had a King Charles cavalier, he was the nicest natured dog, he loved kids was as lazy as hell and could eat his own body weight in biscuits!
I think you have to be very careful if you get one because it’s a bread that can have lots of health problems.

ProfessorCat Mon 23-Oct-17 12:28:02

Please don't buy a crossbreed. The parents will not have been health checked and pups could have problems that come with Cavaliers.

Cavaliers are fantastic dogs, they're easy, great temperament, intelligent and loyal. Research breeders thoroughly as they are renowned for various health issues.

Only buy a pup from a breeder that can show you the health test certificates from both parents. A good breeder will have a contract and the puppies will be endorsed.

Please don't buy any puppy that is advertised anywhere. Good breeders do not need to advertise.

First steps would be to contact the breed club. They will have a list of registered breeders. Visit some shows and talk to owners. Do Discover Dogs. Research, research, research.

QuitMoaning Mon 23-Oct-17 12:32:30

I have a question about crossbreeeds. You say that they will potentially have health problems but aren’t most health problems caused by too much inbreeding?
When I was a little girl, the healthiest dogs were the cross breeds and mongrels. What has changed? Shouldn’t we be expanding the gene pool and trying to alleviate the health issues ? Don’t cavaliers have skulls too small?

I don’t actually have a dog at the moment due to incompatible working hours but one day I shall have them again

Nannyplumbrocks Mon 23-Oct-17 12:34:21

I also thought crossbreeds were supposed to be healthier as they dont develop breed specific illnesses...?

TwattyCatty Mon 23-Oct-17 12:36:42

Please don't buy a crossbreed. The parents will not have been health checked and pups could have problems that come with Cavaliers

That doesn't mean anything. Of course cavachons could have cavalier problems, but then again so do cavaliers. So you may as well say don't get a cavalier.
or any dog, since they all come with possibilities of specific issues.
Also ridiculous to say the parents won't have been health checked. They may or may not, same as if you got any other dog.

Ginmakesitallok Mon 23-Oct-17 12:39:55

My mum has always had cavaliers. If you are prepared for years of vets appointments and can afford good insurance then they are lovely wee dogs. Prone to heart problems and syringomyelitis which can be devastating. I wouldn't get one.

BiteyShark Mon 23-Oct-17 12:42:19

The key thing is to know which health issues each breed can have and then look
for a breeder that has tested the parents. For example, my pedigree (not a cav) could develop nasty genetic eye diseases (amongst others) but the breeder had the dna tests of both parents so I know he will never develop it.

flowers123 Mon 23-Oct-17 12:45:48

I have had three king Charles cavaliers they are the most lovely loyal dog you will ever own. Please make sure you have a health certificate from both parents as this breed can have problems x

SummatFishyEre Mon 23-Oct-17 12:45:55

There's no such thing as hybrid vigour and your crossbred designer dog is just as likely as a purebred to inherit it's parents issues. A proper mongrel dog might be healthier but your bog standard cavachon won't magically be healthier than a purebred dog

hippyhippyshake Mon 23-Oct-17 12:52:16

They are so intelligent. Here's mine reading.grin

hippyhippyshake Mon 23-Oct-17 12:52:57

shock where's my lovely cav?

hippyhippyshake Mon 23-Oct-17 12:55:28

Here she is

TyrionLannistersShadow Mon 23-Oct-17 12:56:17

We have a cavachon and we adore her. She's clever, gentle yet playful, great with kids, affectionate and great company, we wouldn't swap her for anything. Oh and she doesn't shed which was one of the main reasons we got her!

CornflakeHomunculus Mon 23-Oct-17 13:05:29

You say that they will potentially have health problems but aren’t most health problems caused by too much inbreeding?

Inbreeding (or, more specifically, lack of genetic diversity) is involved in the emergence of new heritable conditions and also in them becoming prevalent within a breed. It’s not the sole cause of dogs being affected by those conditions though as once a faulty gene has proliferated through a breed (sometimes multiple breeds with a distant shared ancestry) it’s entirely possible for it to pop up in a dog with very low levels of inbreeding. Obviously as many conditions affect multiple breeds it’s not safe to assume that cross breeding alone will avoid them. Increasing genetic diversity by crossing/outcrossing is a very good thing but doing so blindly, without having established the genetic health of both parents, is not.

I also thought crossbreeds were supposed to be healthier as they dont develop breed specific illnesses...?

It’s really not that simple and a great deal depends on the breeds involved and the specific health issues that could potentially be involved.

One of the major issues with the CKCS is Chiari Malformation/Syringomyelia (CM/SM) which cannot be reliably avoided just be cross breeding. CM/SM has actually been seen in Bichons (not to mention most other breeds commonly crossed with the CKCS) and so such a cross isn’t even stacking the odds against puppies potentially being affected. This is why it’s still vital for anyone breeding CKCS crosses to have them MRI screened prior to breeding which very few do. CM/SM has even been diagnosed in some CKCS crosses so this isn’t just a theoretical risk, it’s a very real one which could have devastating consequences for the puppies.

CornflakeHomunculus Mon 23-Oct-17 13:12:35

*Of course cavachons could have cavalier problems, but then again so do cavaliers. So you may as well say don't get a cavalier.
or any dog, since they all come with possibilities of specific issues.*

The issue is with CKCS crosses specifically is that very few breeders of them actually do all the necessary health screening. It’s an excellent example of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing; either the buyers think “hybrid vigour” is some kind of guarantee or health so dodgy breeders can cut corners by not bothering with necessary health tests or a naïve breeder thinks the same and so doesn’t bother health testing.

Some health issues in the CKCS are particularly devastating and also particularly common the breed. They’re also ones which can’t be guaranteed to be avoided just by breeding a CKCS to any one of the popular breeds for crosses.

Nannyplumbrocks Mon 23-Oct-17 13:33:30

Im learning lots! Thanks for all the replies

CornflakeHomunculus Mon 23-Oct-17 13:54:26

Obviously health testing is extremely important but them being done alone is not necessarily indicative of a good breeder, there’s a lot more to it than that. It’s not uncommon for breeders (especially those producing extremely popular breeds/crosses) who are doing all the appropriate testing to be breeding on a large, sometimes very large, scale because it then becomes more financially viable to do the tests in order to appear more reputable. This brings its own potential issues both in terms of health and lasting psychological impact on the puppies, not to mention the welfare of the “breeding stock”.

It’s also not just about having the tests done but correctly interpreting the results, especially with something like CM/SM where it’s not a simple condition where a dog can be DNA tested and declare to be clear, a carrier or affected.

insert1usernamehere Mon 23-Oct-17 14:03:39

Also, do your research on how to avoid puppy farms, and avoid anything that might possibly be a puppy farm - even if this means not getting your dream puppy in the near future

These designer cross breeds (cockapoo, cavachon etc.) are particularly prone to coming from puppy farms as
(a) they're profitable
(b) established breeders will continue to focus on their own purebred dogs rather than faffing about with whatever cross is fashionable these days

Breed rescue is a good place to start - either they may know of one looking for a new home, or they will be able to place you on a waiting list.

missbattenburg Mon 23-Oct-17 14:03:56

"I have a question about crossbreeeds. You say that they will potentially have health problems but aren’t most health problems caused by too much inbreeding?"

That's true of mixed breeds: dogs with multiple genetics from multiple sources over multiple generations. It is not true of cross breeds which have limited genetics from limited sources over just a few generations. That's how genetics and beneficial mutations work.

Because cross breeds cannot be shown or have any breed club associated with them the are a magnet for people just crossing 2 dogs they know to get a litter. In addition, because they are relatively new to the market the breeders of them tend not have the history of breeding behind them. Thats not all cross-breeders, but it is the majority.

This makes it harder to find a decent breeder of crosses that knows the lines of the litters the produce (i.e. knows the parents, grandparents, great grand parents) and has the history and experience of breeding those lines. It's hard to find ones where the parents have been thoroughly tested for all the health complaints common to their breed. That doesn't mean the don't exist, just that it is much harder to find them.

OP: as a good rule please look at the very worse aspects of both breeds in the cross because there is no guarantee exactly what mix of the two you will get. If you can happily live with the worst of both breeds then you are well prepared for a cross breed. For example, Bichon's can be very difficult to house train and Cavs can suffer from separation anxiety. Rather than hope they cancel each other out you should be prepared for a dog that pees in the house and cannot be left alone.

The same is true of physical/health problems. Cavachons produced from untested parents could suffer from both syringomyelia AND hereditary cataracts (illnesses common to each breed) rather than suffering neither. Parental testing is critical because the two lines will not cancel out the bad from each breed.

Nannyplumbrocks Mon 23-Oct-17 14:08:04

Yes Im aware of the puppy farm issue. Unfortunately we went to see a pup recently who was clearly a puppy farm so we are trying our best to avoid that. Problem being while the kennel club have a few cavalier breeders there are no cavachon breeders obviously being crossbreeds. Its very hard to find a good breeder! ( Im outside UK)

VivaLeBeaver Mon 23-Oct-17 14:16:18

Have you found the uk cavachon fb group? Theyre a good source of info Re breeder. There's also a cavachons from health tested parents fb group.

SwimmingInTheBlueLagoon Mon 23-Oct-17 15:32:25

A Cavalier cross is far more likely to have health issues than a well sourced Cavalier.

Cavalier crosses are puppy farm gold, I don't believe there is a single reputable breeder of a Cavalier cross. They either don't fully health test the parents (Cavs are particularly expensive to fully health test because of MRI needed, as well as DNA tests, frequent heart tests, etc) and/or the breeders don't know their lines well enough (essential to get a healthy heart, since you won't know about the parents heart's until after litters have bred and you need a long line of heart healthy to have the best chance at avoiding issues).

Most cavalier health issues are also a problem in breeds they are crossed with, so you won't prevent health problems by crossing, just pretty much guarantee to support either a puppy farm or byb.

Cavaliers are wonderful dogs (I have a Cavalier and a show type Cocker). They are very much a happy go lucky dog. They love everyone and everything (the hardest part of their training is to stop them running up to strangers or following other dogs, when off lead). They are very forgiving dogs and a well bred one should never be snappy or growly. They love fuss and attention.

They are very much lap dogs in the house. But very energetic and a spaniel outside (something a lot of people don't realise because Cavs are so often kept obese and under exercised/unfit). They need an hour of walking, mostly off lead and will go all day if you want. They make perfect family pets.

They are also very low moulting (what they do mould pretty much all comes out in the brush - I don't get hairs around the place from my Cavalier - although a lot of people involved in the breed say they are worse once neutered)

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