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Has anyone experience of a dog who JUST DOESNT LEARN?

(23 Posts)
Gallopingthundercunt Sun 13-Nov-16 05:09:54

Because I am on the verge of a huge tantrum angry
DDog2 simply refuses to learn to observe the social etiquette of our house. He is obsessed with DH and so will stand up at him while we eat, while we're sat on the sofa, while he's making a cup of tea etc. He will sneak upstairs if he gets half a chance, despite never being allowed upstairs, always being sent down with a flea in his ear and being praised when he does remain downstairs.
Written down it all sounds quite trivial but he is not a stupid dog, in fact he is actually a trained gun dog and carries this job out well. Out of the house he is well behaved, has good recall etc.
DDogs 1&3 don't stand up at us all the time, don't go upstairs don't sleep on the fecking dining table so I am at my wits end how to make the little bugger see sense.

BellaGoth Sun 13-Nov-16 05:35:36

Our lab burnt his nose on the George forman grill 4 times trying to lick out the drip tray, so yes I've had experience of a dog that just doesn't learn!

Ime it's usually the smartest dogs that are the worst for this sort of thing and I usually find it easier to physically manage the behaviour instead of train them out of it ad they're so bloody determined! Personally I'd fit a stair Gate, could you do that?

I'm not sure what you mean by "stand up at him". But what does your husband do when the dog does it?

brittanyfairies Sun 13-Nov-16 06:32:47

I've got a springer of 6 months old now. Super intelligent picking up basic training but she is driving me crazy refusing to learn not to come on the sofa. she is forever trying to climb up, tries to get upstairs so I've had to buy a baby gate, and yes to being found on several occasions sitting in the middle of the dining room table. She thinks she owns all the sticks in the house and I can see her eyeing up the fire whenever I open it up to put in more logs. lucky I love her because for an intelligent dog she can be really stupid.

winwhizzer Sun 13-Nov-16 08:33:01

Its not that they can't or won't learn . They are probably the more intelligent dogs it is that the reward to NOT do things is not high enough to the reward of doing the behaviour.

Licking the foreman grill and getting burnt is worth is to taste the sausages that were cooked on it (only a lab!)

Being close to your DH is a greater reward than lying on his bed - up the reward for the alternative behaviour and prevent the wrong behaviour before it takes place and you will have a trained dog smile

SO for example if the dog is standing up to your DH during meals throw food on the floor or in the dogs bed so they would prefer to be searching for the food during the meals - this can gradually be dropped down to random bits of food being thrown in the dog bed during the meal.

Gallopingthundercunt Sun 13-Nov-16 08:41:16

We do have a baby gate at the bottom but he's worked out how to push it aside (it closes with magnets as it's the only way it would fit our stairs- I should also add that it is specifically for the dogs, at 12 DS is now trusted to manoeuvre the stairs by himself!)
We also have to tip all the chairs up against the table when we go out to stop him sleeping on there. That coupled with the two airers specifically purchased to cover our sofas and our sitting room looks like something off The Crystal Maze hmm
Bella, wrt standing up at DH, he sort of hugs his leg when DH is standing (it looks a bit rapey but there's no humping or <ahem> excitement IYSWIM?) When DH is sat down he just stands with his front paws on DH's lap or on the sofa, staring besottedly at him. DH will tell him to get off, DDog2 will look wounded and go away, then try again approximately three and a half minutes later hmm
If he was a stupid dog then I could better understand it. His attitude just seems so, I don't know defiant I suppose, though I know that's not how dogs minds work.

pinkhorse Sun 13-Nov-16 08:51:14

What dog do you have? We have a sprocker and is exactly the same as this. I really struggle. I wish we'd never got a dog. We can't let her out of the kitchen as she runs round crazily, knocking everything over and eating literally everything she finds. When she gets excited she wees! Ours is a gun dog too so is very clever just not at the things I want her to be clever at.

Gallopingthundercunt Sun 13-Nov-16 09:31:13

pink he is a working cocker hmm

I totally get what you mean about wishing you hadn't had the dog. DDog1 is also a WC but totally different in temperament so I think we were lulled into a false sense of security. The thing is that he is DH's "once in a lifetime" dog and having been lucky to have had one of these myself, I know how deep the affection runs.
Sadly there are days when I just feel that I could rehome him without a second thought and that saddens me greatly sad

pinkhorse Sun 13-Nov-16 10:17:37

Ah thought so! I wish I had a cute little lapdog that curls up on the sofa with me at night. I just feel like I get nothing back from her at all. I could easily remove her without a second thought but my bf won't .

PIVOT Tue 15-Nov-16 23:28:54

Haha I have a cute little lap dog that curls up with me on the sofa but also refuses to learn! He is a dachshund and very intelligent, too intelligent and I think he loves to defy me.

He is not allowed upstairs, he couldn't actually climb them but he loves nothing better than to sneak into the living room if someone leaves the door open. You go in and he actually looks you in the eye before running around like Road Runner. I know it's not good, but we just Benny hill it now.

He wants to be on your lap, can't get close enough to you. Watches you eat.

Toilet training has been interesting, we are getting there but will he do a poo and a wee in one visit? Will he buggery, it's like he knows that's a two treat job and if he does it in one, he misses a treat.

I reward lots of good behaviour and ignore the bad. Like others, managing him physically is key but obviously him being so small helps. Chairs all have to be shoved in and we have to lift up the cushions on the sofa so he doesn't jump on them. I'm not offended by him being on the furniture - but him being the breed he is means a delicate back and jumping up and down isn't recommend.

He will refuse to go out if it's raining, for toilet let alone a walk. I pick my battles. Literally pick him up and wait for him to finish his business for the toilet, and we don't walk in the rain which suits me!

Luckily the fact that he's cuddly makes up for the fact that he is a massive dickhead.

LordRothermereBlackshirtCunt Tue 15-Nov-16 23:39:21

I read your first post and was mentally composing my reply about one of my dogs who refuses to learn not to steal food or not to stare at me when I'm eating, and then I saw from your update that we have the same breed! (and DDog1 is better behaved in our house too). The naughty dog is obsessed with me in the same way that yours is with your husband. And he is highly intelligent and well trained in many respects, but there are just a couple of behaviours for which the satisfaction seemingly far outweighs any telling off.

I love the little sod to bits though.

Gallopingthundercunt Wed 16-Nov-16 02:41:27

Nobody has given me a magic cure though <stamps feet>

The little git just seems to have no impulse control. As lord says, the satisfaction seems to outweigh any potential telling off, yet he hates to be told off and looks like a battered stray when you do so hmm Luckily he is so good out the house unless we try and eat out or go to the pub when he swarms over DH like creeping crud that I can mostly bear it on balance.

I am however EXCEPTIONALLY unlikely to have another cocker ever again angry

Out2pasture Wed 16-Nov-16 03:08:09

we have an Airedale, and wanted to be able to have him run off leash but we live in an area with deer and bears sooooo he needed to be able to return while running after wildlife.
our answer was an electronic collar. with the assistance of a dog trainer. one of the features is a vibration which we use to indicate "no" and a buzz to indicate "return".
we found this tool to be wonderful and allows him a huge amount of free running time with the safety needed where we live.
I would have no problem with using the collar for behavior training (no to be on the couch, no to going upstairs, no to standing etc.)
with us the training took 2 lessons, he continues to wear it when we go out but it is rarely rarely used.
our Tibetan spaniel, had a tiny tiny collar as he had strange behaviors only when on a leash. ONE lesson was all it took, he no longer wears the collar or the leash and walks amazingly by our side regardless of any distractions.

BikeRunSki Wed 16-Nov-16 03:11:11

Yes. And now she's only got 3 legs because of it.

Gallopingthundercunt Wed 16-Nov-16 07:35:12

out they are seriously frowned upon in the UK, and I don't really have the justification of bears like you do grin

bike that's awful sad though he may find it harder to get on the dining table with a leg missing

Out2pasture Wed 16-Nov-16 16:49:14

Galloping I was of that impression.
It does hold an electric charge but as I said it has a vibrate setting.
Your only choice will then have to be consistency.
Btw we place "guard buckets" on our chairs when leave the house, the Tibetan is cute and sneaky.

Gallopingthundercunt Thu 17-Nov-16 02:21:57

grin at "guard buckets"
We have guard airers, those cheap fold away ones are perfect for covering sofas with <eyes DDog2 dispassionately>

WanderingAndLost Thu 17-Nov-16 09:55:13

Please never, ever use an e-collar to train a dog. The ONLY reason they work is because they are aversive and cause pain or discomfort to the dog. There are far, far kinder and more effective ways to train.

It sounds to me like you're telling your dog what you don't want him to do but you're not telling him what you DO want him to do. There are a million different ways not to do something - how does the dog choose? It becomes confused and reverts back to the behaviour that it knows and finds rewarding. Instead of telling the dog to get down from your DH notice when he is quiet and settled around him and reinforce him strongly for that, for example.

JonesCat Thu 17-Nov-16 21:36:42

Oh god I feel so much relief having found this post (sorry, I know that wasn't your reason for posting).
We have an 8 month old duck toller and she is the most stubborn and defiant thing I have ever come across. Hubby and I often discuss where on earth she gets her entitled attitude from.
If she sees a human doing something she thinks she should do it too no matter how many times you tell her no.
Whenever I come down the stairs I hear her jump off the sofa.
She literally moans and huffs when she's told off. She's like a teenager.
She's very well trained- only when she wants to be though.
I can't even begin to list her annoying sneaky little habits.
The only thing that stops me from re-homing her is the shame and the hope that she will get better with age. It makes me feel like such a bad person

Knackered46 Thu 17-Nov-16 21:53:17

That coupled with the two airers specifically purchased to cover our sofas and our sitting room looks like something off The Crystal Maze hmm

Sorry - That made me laugh!

Gallopingthundercunt Fri 18-Nov-16 09:32:25

That's sort of the point though wandering, we do reward the little good behaviour when we see it, but it makes no difference.
I suspect part of it is his devotion to DH coupled with a deep rooted fear that DDog1 or DDog3 may get to him first. This means that he will accept the telling off so long as he gets to drape himself round DH's person before the others.
And by far the most galling part of all this is that he is the only one of the three bought from a proper breeder, ethically bred and reared and with no trauma in his young life at all. I suspect jones use of the word "entitled" is actually quite apt hmm

WanderingAndLost Fri 18-Nov-16 10:47:52

Galloping, behaviour is lawful. If the unwanted behaviour is persisting it is because it is more reinforcing to the dog than the wanted behaviour. When you say you reward the behaviour what do you mean? Whatever it is is obviously not rewarding enough to the dog, iyswim. Dogs are NOT stubborn or wilful or defiant. They don't consciously choose not to behave. You need to show them what you want them to do. A "telling off" teaches a dog nothing but can breed insecurity and mistrust.

Gallopingthundercunt Fri 18-Nov-16 12:57:02

wandering if for example he sits on his sofa while we eat, he will be told he's a good dog and given a treat. If he gets off he will be sent back "to bed"
The problem is that he will get down numerous times, only to be sent back again (not told off as such, just sent back again) A treat for staying up will inevitably lead to him hopping off two minutes later.

Like I said, as a gundog he's really well behaved (though we had issues with a lack of self control early on, a little more than puppy inexperience but nothing too dreadful) off the lead he's well behaved, in terms of chewing, barking, soiling in the house etc he's well behaved so he clearly has capacity to learn (just not the willingness to match)

myfriendnigel Fri 18-Nov-16 13:16:02

Yes. I have a Jack Russell. He is very clever. He knows to go outside for the toilet, literally scratching at the back door to let us know he wants to go etc.He definitely knows what he should be doing and does it 90% of the time.he's left for four hours in the day in the Kitchen whilst I work and has never had an accident. All good.
Until he just can't be bothered. In which case he does whatever he wants, where he wants with no warning.It's driving me up the wall.
I love the little beast but this weekend I'm having wooden floor laid as he has ruined the carpet shock. At least it will be easier to clean.

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