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Inbreeding of dogs

(19 Posts)
ShoeEatingMonster Tue 26-Jul-16 12:44:00

We've had our cocker spaniel puppy for a few weeks. He came from a kennel club assured breeder.
I've just got round to having a look at his pedigree and I noticed some names appearing more than one and not just the prefix. It appears his sire is also his dam's grandsire confused
I've done some research and looked at the kennel clubs coefficient inbreeding calculator. It says the breed average is 9% but our puppy has come out at 26%.
I'm gutted. I truly thought we'd done our homework and gone to a reputable breeder.
Are we likely to face any actual problems from this?blush

TrionicLettuce Tue 26-Jul-16 13:00:40

That is very high, higher in fact than a mating between full siblings would produce. It's impossible to say how much it might affect your pup, or if it will at all. I'd recommend reading this article though, it gives a really good explanation of COIs.

Unfortunately the Assured Breeder Scheme is very far from perfect and a lot of good breeders refuse to be part of it because as it stands it's not really worth much. Whilst it requires breeders to perform certain health tests they only need to perform the tests, they don't need to pay any attention to the results. Obviously there's also nothing to stop participating breeders producing litters with very high COIs either.

toboldlygo Tue 26-Jul-16 13:16:05

Out of personal curiosity - show cocker or working type?

According to the KC's standards they are still a reputable breeder, sadly, despite having made the choice to produce the genetic equivalent of a father/daughter or full sibling mating.

The Institute of Canine Biology is a really helpful resource in understanding COI and the impact of inbreeding.

Please don't panic! It is just one measure of of potential health and must be considered with many other aspects. A low COI doesn't guarantee anything, either. The implications for dog breeds as a whole are significant but the impact on any one dog is likely to be small. smile

ShoeEatingMonster Tue 26-Jul-16 13:17:08

Oh God really Trionic that's awful! I'll ask the vet when I seem them next week and read that article.

ShoeEatingMonster Tue 26-Jul-16 13:18:31

He's a show cocker.

I feel so irresponsible!

toboldlygo Tue 26-Jul-16 17:39:16

The reason I ask is that although I'm primarily involved in another breed I do handle a cocker for a family member and know a few lines. Contrary to my expectations the show breeders generally seem to be the ones taking health concerns seriously and actually doing health tests, considering COIs, importing/exporting dogs to minimise inbreeding etc. I'm really sorry you've found one who doesn't follow this trend. sad

Working type breeders seem far less likely to health test and around here the popular sire effect is in full force, I looked up a local FTCH stud dog recently and he'd sired several hundred litters. shock

ImBrian Wed 27-Jul-16 19:01:01

I just checked my papillon pup, breed average is 5.something % and she got 19.5%!!! 3 of her great grandparents are the same dog!

happyvalley4 Wed 27-Jul-16 19:07:04

There are some behavioural issues associated with cockers which could be exacerbated by inbreeding. For some reason it affects those that are all one colour. If this is the case look out for any issues with aggression and seek professional help.

ShoeEatingMonster Wed 27-Jul-16 22:06:44

toboldlygo there are lots of Kyna lines.
happy he's a roan but will keep an eye out for aggression issues. Thanks

Lacystacie Wed 27-Jul-16 22:18:02

I've got an inbred dog, a staff X whippet X ridgeback and he's lovely. His mum is technically his sister too and his dad is also his grandad. The only health problems he's had is sensitive skin and a hernia. I don't agree with inbreeding and he's also a rescue so he's neutered (was done as soon as he was old enough) luckily enough he was the only puppy in the litter (no behavioural issues from that either). Don't think less of him I'm sure he will be a lovely dog smile

DailyMailPenisPieces Thu 28-Jul-16 05:15:15

Lacy 'His mum is technically his sister too'. - surely that's not possible?!confused

OP are you too attached to return to breeder?

WhingySquirrel Thu 28-Jul-16 05:24:03

This is very common unfortunately sad sorry for no further help.

Noitsnotteatimeyet Thu 28-Jul-16 07:24:04

I've just looked at my dog's five generation pedigree and no dog appears more than once and there's only a couple of mentions of the same kennel prefix. My dog is a relatively rare breed so I find it hard to believe that breeders of more readily available dogs can't find dogs to breed from which aren't related to each otherhmm

Whitney168 Thu 28-Jul-16 08:55:30

This is a high COI, but for your individual dog that could be a good thing or a bad thing LOL. It depends entirely on the health of the dogs behind it.

Inbreeding does NOT create health problems. What it does is make any characteristics (health, appearance, temperament) more likely to be present in the offspring. If those characteristics are good - good hip scores, clear eye tests - then it can be a good thing. If they are bad - poor hips, eye problems - then it can be a bad thing.

So, assuming you did the sensible thing and chose a breeder who selected for health, I wouldn't worry.

Yes, long term for the breed, it wouldn't be great if that continued, it can affect fertility and can make problems very set within the breed - but for an individual dog it is more important to know what is behind it.

Whitney168 Thu 28-Jul-16 08:55:35

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Whitney168 Thu 28-Jul-16 08:56:16

Apologies, duplicate post reported

Shizzlestix Thu 28-Jul-16 10:15:28

Got to disagree, inbreeding does cause issues, depending on the closeness of the breeding. Line breeding is common, I had a pup with the same name appearing twice but with Irish imports too, as it's a very common breed. I would go back to the same breeder, pup has been amazing.

As mentioned, the assured scheme isn't worth the paper it's written on, they don't pick up on poor health scores, so banging on about how they've health tested is totally pointless.

Lacystacie Thu 28-Jul-16 10:18:46

daily yeah his dad had a daughter who he then bred with an created my boy. Thankfully the dogs where removed before anymore could be born, he was left eating fag butts at 5 weeks old so I took him

ShoeEatingMonster Thu 28-Jul-16 10:26:24

Dailymail far too attached to send him back!

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