I'm very concerned about new pup

(27 Posts)
ionaviolet1 Sun 03-Jul-16 20:50:47

We decided recently that it's the right time to get a new pup and put a deposit down on a puppy a few weeks ago. We decided on a boy as we already have a neutered female and thought a boy would be better than another girl and have to deal with future bitch on bitch aggression. Anyway we went to see our boy today ( he's 5wk3days) and he seems abit of a loner and very reserved. The other puppies were very confident coming tugging on us, play fighting with each other etc as you'd expect but our boy was just so quiet. He did have a play with his sister but he was very submissive on the bottom. The other pups came out in the garden jumping around playing with each over and us but our boy just went off on his own sniffing around and wasn't to bothered with us or the other dogs. I picked him up and he didn't struggle, wasn't shaking and his tail wasn't tucked between his legs which I took as a good sign. Abit later his litter mates were asleep and he seemed more confident and was tugging on their ears etc. It's hard to judge from my time there whether he's scared, shy or just a loner. Does anyone know what potential problems we could have with him? I don't want to bring him into a house (with a 4yr old boy and a very bouncy 2yr old female dog) that will make him more of a loner and possibly end up with fear aggression. I really don't know what to do so any advice is greatly appreciated, thankyou

villainousbroodmare Mon 04-Jul-16 10:39:41

He sounds like a quiet polite little dog. Those are usually very easy as long as they are good-natured, which it also sounds like he is.
Is your current dog a kind-hearted girl? Will she go to her bed or crate and give the new kid room to breathe?
You'll have to make a safe space for him where he can relax away from your DS and DDog, get to know you and the house, and of course master toilet training etc.
I wouldn't leave him behind just because he's quiet and self-sufficient. But it is different to the more typical introduce-a-new-puppy scenario which involves giving your adult dog a break from someone endlessly hanging out of their ears.
Good luck and report back!

ionaviolet1 Mon 04-Jul-16 12:49:43

Thankyou for your response it's appreciated. My girl is 2 and is a bundle of bounciness and what worries is me that she may be to much for him. Although she's very bouncy and full of playfulness she is a very submissive girl she will greet other adult dogs with her head down and roll onto her back belly on full view to them before exploding into full bounce and play mode. Because I had her spade before any accidents ever happened I thought now would be a good time to now bet another addition as maybe her mothering side will come out so she has a chance to kind of be a mother but then as he grew she would have a friend (my girl loves cuddles and human contact but she equally if not more loves other dogs). We have guinea pigs and she does try to lick their ears\bums (irr) and the odd nudge bowing down to try get them play. She will go to bed\leave when I tell her but she sometimes is overcome by excitement and I'm worried new pup will find this very overwhelming. I don't want to just take him because he's a cute little puppy and I can. I want to know that he will have the best home for him&w e can meet his needs. (Don't shoot the messenger but....some of his litter mates have already gone! I have made it clear on the 2 occasions I've been asked that he must stay with mum and taking him before 8 weeks is not an option. The rest of the pups are going this week and will only leave mine and one more pup remaining until 8 weeks. I felt when I visited she had nothing that good to say about him, even offered me deposit back and on the way home I got a video showing him in the kitchen all on his own then went outside to show all the other pups happily playing with mum and each other then back in the kitchen to show me him under the stairs on his own) When I first went they were just squirmy blobs with no personality and I did say I hope he's not going to be the quiet one sat in the back (sods law). I understand if I bring him home he is going to need lots of quiet settling in time, let him come to us for a fuss rather than us going to him and giving him lots of praise when he does to build up his confidence. My 4 year won't be a problem he was fantastic with my girl when she was a pup and always has been they are the best of friends I just worry that our home may be to active for him. I'm probly making something out of nothing but thisis a hugeee decision and if we bring him home he's home for life so just trying to get other people's opinions so I can head any future issues off at the pass and stop them from ever becoming problems and help him grow into a loving well balanced dog. I guess my main fear is he will get fear aggression. He was different than the other pups no doubt about that, quieter, more causious but he did come over to me, licked my face in a reserved way. I also tried to gee him up abit and goed him into playing by using the end of my platt (I wouldn't normally encourage this but wanted to see how he would react, run, freeze etc) he did open his mouth in an attempt to play but never actually grabbed it or clamped down. Like I said I picked him up and no signs of shaking and no tail between his legs which I've took as a positive. Sorry for the rambling on my heads just swimming with ifs and buts, I just want the little guy to have the best start in life :-)

ionaviolet1 Mon 04-Jul-16 12:58:33

And yes it will be the puppy needing a break from our girl lol it's definitely very different from the norm, infact it's like a complete reversal of roles shock

Greyhorses Mon 04-Jul-16 13:01:44

I would view again at 8 weeks and make a decision. Personally I wouldn't want the overconfident puppy but also would not touch a nervous puppy ever ever again.

Quiet wouldnt bother me but nervousness would. I have one quiet shy one who is lovely and has never been a moments trouble but nervous girl who is spooked easily is a nightmare so I would a avoid that at all costs!

insan1tyscartching Mon 04-Jul-16 13:05:33

Of the pups we saw Eric was the quietest and most reserved. We chose him over a smaller, louder and more boisterous pup because we hoped for a calm dog. I wouldn't say Eric's the most placid dog, he's into absolutely everything but he is definitely a people orientated dog so whilst he likes to meet his friends on his walks and he plays with them really well, his first love is always the humans attached to them.

KittiesInsane Mon 04-Jul-16 13:06:47

Ours was by far the quietest and most placid of the litter.
Turns out she was just biding her time...

KittiesInsane Mon 04-Jul-16 13:07:35

On the other hand, I'd be worried about your breeder, if I've read your OP right. What are they doing, packing the pups off at 5 weeks?

DementedUnicorn Mon 04-Jul-16 13:22:43

I took one of the bounciest happiest pups from the litter. He is very spirited IyKWIM

TrionicLettuce Mon 04-Jul-16 13:35:54

I would absolutely walk away from this breeder.

No decent breeder would ever allow puppies to go so young. Leaving their mum and litter mates before seven weeks (at the absolute earliest) can cause all sorts of behavioural issues. DDog2 came to us at around five weeks from a rescue and whilst she's a lovely dog (she's eight years old now) she really struggled to learn bite inhibition, has attachment issues, develops obsessive behaviours at the drop of a hat, took years to house train properly. All of these things (and more, we got off relatively lightly!) are frequently seen in puppies who have been removed from the litter too young. Regardless of whether your individual pup stays until eight weeks or not, this breeder is potentially damaging the pups they've bred by getting shut of them just as they're getting harder work and more expensive to rear........

If they're either ignorant or (more likely) unscrupulous enough to let puppies go well before they could possibly be ready I'd be worried what other corners they've been cutting. At worst you could end up with a pup with poor temperament and/or health issues and at best you'd be funding a clearly shitty breeder and encouraging them to do it all again.

Walk away, report them to whoever you can (list of options for that here) then find a decent breeder who actually cares about their dogs and the puppies they produce.

ionaviolet1 Mon 04-Jul-16 13:40:04

I can't seem to reply to individual post but it doesn't sound all bad quiete ages positives.

Kittiesinsame- yes this is a worry for me and twice have had to say sorry but no this is one of the most important times developmentally for him&i won't take before 8wks. She isn't a breeder as such she's just not had her spade and she's got jiggy with the dog next door (the pups are just mongrels) . She has kept me informed of their care showed me the food she's had them showed me what she's working them with etc but I get the feeling they are just getting to much for her in her tiny house (I sympathised with her and assured her it won't be long now and she will get her house back but again explained taking him before 8week is not an option as it's the best thing for him) I'm going back this weekend to see him and she wants me take my dog but I'm not sure this is for the best as might stress mum out having another bitch near her pups so I might just go without her to have some one on one time. Thanks for your thoughts and experiences guys they are all appreciated :-)

ionaviolet1 Mon 04-Jul-16 13:41:12

Worming them with not working* should proof read before I press post lol

ionaviolet1 Mon 04-Jul-16 13:46:02

I agree TrionicLettuce it's far to young but she has shown me all the stuff she's bought etc and in that way they are really cared for health wise and nutritionally wise (even still feeding off mum occasionally) She isn't a breeder as in that's what she does I genuinely beleive it was an accident but in my opinion I wouldn't let them go before 8wks so I think it is naive thinking rather than sges all about the money. #sigh#

BlueKarou Mon 04-Jul-16 14:06:20

Definitely be prepared to walk away at 8 weeks if you're still concerned. Having just fostered a trio of poorly puppies (one sadly didn't survive, and another required 3 nights at the vets and a large bill) I would tread carefully around this situation. Could be an off moment or a reaction to the worming or any number of things, but better to be safe than sorry.

Go back for another visit at 8 weeks. If the puppy is still quiet and nervy then maybe look elsewhere. Likewise if he's not put on much/any weight that's a cause for concern. Compare him to the other remaining puppy for scale.

If you're really worried but not willing to walk away, then maybe request that she have the puppy checked over by a vet as the last thing you want to do is bring a sick puppy into your house with your child and other dog. This at least could check the basics; heart, breathing, temperature. Vets see a lot of puppies so would know what's in the range of normal for a puppy.

Regarding raising the pup with your older dog, I had a similar situation last year. Other way round in that I brought an energetic puppy home to my laid back older dog. My technique was to crate the puppy when he was pushing his luck with the older dog. He was always fed in the crate and slept there overnight, so invariably when I ushered him into the crate he soon lay down and went to sleep. Plus, as puppies eat more often than adult dogs it means the adult dog can't snaffle any of the youngster's food. You could do the same; give the puppy a quiet place to go when he wants some time out from your older girl.

NavyAndWhite Mon 04-Jul-16 14:08:20

Have you talked to the breeder about him?
Probably best to go again soon and see what he's like then.

What breed is he?

ionaviolet1 Mon 04-Jul-16 14:25:29

Thanks bluekarou some sound advice their. I have already set myself up to walk away if by 8week I'm not 100% sure. I cannot risk bringing a puppy home in to our family environment where it's going to be stressed it's just not fair on the puppy in the long run. He seems healthy just like his other litter mates but will see how he develops in the coming weeks.

Navyyanwhite he's collie x lab (mainly collie) went yesterday and she said I'm going to be honest he is everything you didn't want, quiet, reserved, shy, not very playful and offered me a refund of deposit. I guess I didn't take the deposit and run because I'm worried he will also get rehomed to soon like his other litter mates and with his current temperament being so shy and reserved I think this would set him up for a huge fall

NavyAndWhite Mon 04-Jul-16 15:20:21

I got the shy, nervous, reserved puppy 13 years ago. She was from a breeder that was pretty unscrupulous tbh, we travelled 300 miles to get her and I just couldn't leave her.

She needed extensive socialising. Very careful introductions to everything. She'd been kept in a shed for the first 8 weeks of her life.

Anyway she's been amazing. Yes she is quiet and was never playful. Old before her time. But a beautiful gentle girl that I wouldn't swap for anything.

I suppose one way to look at it do you really want two energetic, bouncy dogs around the place? A quieter dog might be better?

Hard decision and I wish you all the best.

TrionicLettuce Mon 04-Jul-16 15:42:26

I really, really do urge you to take the deposit and find a decent breeder who knows what they are doing and is actually setting their pups up with possible chance of growing up into health, well rounded family pets. Either that or go to a rescue who will help match you up with a dog (or puppy, plenty of them in rescue too) who will be a good fit for you and your existing dog.

Though we got her via a rescue DDog2 obviously originated from a crappy breeder. As well as all the issues she has which were likely caused by being taken from her mum and siblings too young there are other problems which have been as a direct result of her shitty breeding. She developed hereditary cataracts which rendered her blind by the age of only eighteen months old. This was perfectly avoidable had the person who bred her bothered to health test her parents. She needed major surgery (which cost £5000) to restore her sight though it was only moderately successful and she still struggles in low light. She's also predisposed to other eye related conditions as she ages such as glaucoma. She has terrible conformation, so much so it's affected her joints and despite only being medium sized she had bad enough arthritis to require starting daily pain medication when she was only seven years old, no age at all for a dog her size.

That is the sort of thing that happens when people breed without putting any care or effort into it. Some dogs are lucky and despite coming from a crap breeder are healthy and well adjusted. Some, like DDog2, don't and it is a gamble you take if you get a puppy from a bad breeder.

This woman could have chosen to get her dog spayed if she wasn't able to keep her safe from entire dogs. She could have chosen to have an emergency spay for her bitch, or got her the mismate jab. Once she decided the pups were too much for her she could have chosen to approach a rescue for help with the litter and finding homes. Instead she's chosen to allow the pregnancy to continue and chosen to get shut of the puppies too early despite the fact that it's potentially very damaging indeed for them. Even if we give the breeder the benefit of the doubt and believe she only made all these decisions through ignorance it makes zero difference to the potential harm, physically and mentally, that could come to these puppies because of them.

Don't fall into the trap of believing you need to save this puppy. You can do more good by walking away, reporting this breeder (here's the link again of places you can report her to) and getting a dog or puppy from a reputable source. Buying from this person is only going to encourage them to do it all over again, especially given there are clearly buyers willing to take a puppy so young so she doesn't need to bother doing the work she should be doing to get the money for them.

ionaviolet1 Mon 04-Jul-16 16:41:24

Navyandwhite yes I thought this as well that maybe a quieter dog will work better and they could possibly compliment each other in that respect hense still thinking about it and TrionicLettuce I really do hear you and am taking all of what you and others are saying on board and weighing it all up in my head (not my heart although that does sneek in occasionally) if I don't feel 100% this puppy is fine then I will not take him. The offer of the deposit refund has now been took back she said she should never of said that :-\

TrionicLettuce Mon 04-Jul-16 17:20:19

It's not just about that one puppy though, it's about whether it's right to financially reward someone (and thus encouraging them to do it all over again) who is breeding in a very unethical way.

If you're happy to take a punt on a puppy from a crap breeder why not adopt one from a decent rescue instead? At least then you'd have the advantage of a) the puppy having had an appropriate upbringing whilst in the care of the rescue, and b) back up in the event of things not working out with your existing dog.

I'm really not meaning to have a go at you iona but this a subject I'm incredibly passionate about, not least because I've seen first hand the damage that poor breeding can do.

Greyhorses Mon 04-Jul-16 18:33:41

Reading further into your post op I think you are mad to take on any dog that is bred from a non health tested lab. Hip dysplasia is totally avoidable if people test properly and I would not line the pocket of this woman despite how lovely or not the puppy is sad

For what it's worth I am not against cross breeding. I have two rescue dogs myself but I would not pay money for one. One of mine has hip dysplasia and has cost me a lot of money, the second has a genetic disease and also a horrible temprement passed down from a non health tested nervous bitch.

I would only ever pay for a dog if everything was perfect...otherwise go to a rescue and pick up any old puppy if you want a gamble.

ilovesprouts Mon 04-Jul-16 18:36:48

Ha I had a pup when I went to see him he was very quite but that did not last long grin

Veterinari Tue 05-Jul-16 14:24:19

A lab - collie cross is a difficult mix and with the temperament you've described I'd be concerned.
This is a high maintenance possibly nervous working dog mix from an inexperienced breeder coming to a home with a young child. Do you realistically have the time and resources to provide this pup with all of the things he may need in terms of socialisation, training etc?

WannaBe Tue 05-Jul-16 14:38:46

How much money are you paying for this puppy?

TBH confident or not you are fuelling a trade in backyard breeding. There is no excuse to end up with an accidental litter. None what so ever.

If, on the off-chance, this dog escaped from the house during her first ever season and was served by a male next door, then she was far too young and there could be possible implications for her health.

But anything after the first season is just laziness on the part of the owner or worse, and more likely, the opportunity to make a quick few thousand quid on a litter of puppies.

If she's letting them go at five weeks she most certainly doesn't have their best interests at heart, and I suspect she is offering you your deposit back because she knows she can sell this one on as well.

I wouldn't touch this puppy with a barge pole. And tempting as it is, I certainly wouldn't take it out of guilt that it might be sent off at five weeks if I didn't. I don't imagine she's taking great care of them as it is.

I have no issue with crossbreed dogs, but I certainly wouldn't pay vast sums of money for one and would never consider taking one from a backyard breeder who couldn't be bothered to look after the welfare of her dog to the extent it ended up pregnant.

Shizzlestix Tue 05-Jul-16 17:13:22

As already mentioned, I wouldn't touch a lab or lab X without hip scores well below the breed average. Not wanting to be with littermates is a bit of a worry. Will he cope with your bitch who gets 'overcome with excitement' or will he turn and snap? I chose the quiet well behaved pup last time, but he has bags of personality and is as bouncy as any dog, just loves his cuddles and a bit of quiet time.

It's hard to walk away from a pup, but I think this pup might not be the right one for you. Most dogs cope well being re-homed at 5-6 weeks. All pups need vast amounts of socialisation.

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