Buying a puppy

[Bubble2bubble]

Article in our local paper today, about a guy who was duped by a puppy farmer and collected a 5 week old Gumtree advertised yorkie in the car park of KFC. Paid a bargain price do £245.

The pup died a week later.

My question is, do people really, really not know not to do this, even after all the publicity there has been in the last few years?

[BernardsarenotalwaysSaints]

Mad isn't it! I think some people don't want to know it's happening iyswim...that being said they can be very convincing! I'm not a novice & I almost fell foul of a puppy farmer, it's only when I started questioning her over her motives for selling & she started becoming defensive/telling me I didn't know what I was talking about (I did ) that I realised something wasn't right.

[takeaturn]

Yep. I saw a lady walking a teeny tiny jack Russell last week with little pointy ears.

Went to say hello. She said it was a beagle from gumtree. Went to just 'buy' it from a house in a random town. No checks, registration etc. No follow up advice.

I don't even think it could have been old enough to leave mum.

Usual bollocks. No dad present or something.

No way is it a beagle. Such a shame. I hope they're OK and it works out but I was so surprised too that people do this.

[Wyldfyre]

The puppy gamers are getting smarter though - selling from smart looking houses and making sure they have a bitch there (which may or may not be the mother)

[Wyldfyre]

*farmers

[EllenTheEgret]

A colleague if mine told me how he got his patterdale x dachund puppy: he and his partner were on holiday in Wales, saw a sign to a farm, went in and saw dogs in horrible condition but felt sorry for the puppy so bought it (can't remember the price he paid). It just makes me so sad, and angry, and frustrated, as he is otherwise an intelligent, responsible, all round nice bloke. But a total dick in this respect.

The poor, poor mum dog .

[pigsDOfly]

Agree with Bernards people often don't want to to know and they're as culpable as the puppy farmers. I think a lot of them buy a dog on a whim. They don't care what they're buying, they've not looked into it, they've done no research - clearly the woman with the jr that she though was a beagle didn't even know what the dog she thought she was buying was supposed to look like - they just want a cute little toy.

I'm not saying everyone who buys from a puppy farm doesn't care, a lot of people are very trusting and naive but surely, there's so much information out there nowadays that anyone who has really done their homework won't be misled in this way.

[QueenOnAPlate]

It's really hard though. We have been trying to buy a dog for a year and have had to walk away 3 times as despite all the research, I could tell it was puppy farm - nice house, breeder in a rush, mum dog out with family etc.
I then started looking at rescues, but it's really hard to find one that can be placed with a family who don't have dog experience or a current dog. I'm at home all day, have lots of pet experience ( but no dog since childhood) and in a year I haven't managed to get us a dog yet! I can see why people do end up taking the easier option.

Also, I know loads of people with dogs from puppy farms ( I have spoken to every dog owner I have passed for a year and quizzed them). They are all fine and happy. Of course I haven't met the ones it has gone badly for, but lots of people recommended obvious puppy farms to me.

[Bubble2bubble]

This is what bothers me - people have a "fine and happy" puppy with no immediately obvious health problems, so they kid themselves it's not that bad to buy from an obviously dodgy source. :(

[BernardsarenotalwaysSaints]

Yep, it is very sad. It's why I encourage people to find a breeder not a litter if they're going down the pedigree puppy route. Schemes like KC assured breeder scheme don't always help though. The person I referred to above was, at the time, on the assured breeders list (she's since disappeared off it) although she hadn't ever been visited. That's why I initially contacted her over the private homes that were advertising at the time (we wanted an adult not a pup). I'm not saying everyone on the KC scheme is bad btw just that you should still research them, as I learnt.

I also completely agree that people are more likely to buy from a PF when they decide they want a puppy on a whim & that any puppy will do.

[powershowerforanhour]

Wilful ignorance/ denial. Selfsame people love dogs, watch documentaries about puppy farming and horrified by conditions, scandal scandal handwringing something should be done...but happy to close down their mind and fuel the trade with the cash they hand over. Even in the worst situations- when a pup is presented that is weeks younger and a different breed to what they were told, shit conformation, thin and full of worms, ear mites and lice or worse still parvo- no owner I have seen ever ever ever shows any appetite to go after the breeder and get them investigated. Ever.

[powershowerforanhour]

I think one thing that should be pushed is encouraging people to visit the litter at 5-6 weeks then go back at a later date to buy, and refuse to look at "ready to go now" litters. This would make puppy farming less economically viable as it uses up time, plus it's harder to pass a 2 week old pup off as 5 wks than 5 weeks as 8 wks.

[pigsDOfly]

Reading this reminded me of something that I came across about six years ago, can't remember exactly, I was in a small shopping area near Enfield near London with my DD when popped into a small pet shop.

The place full of cages of kittens and puppies waiting to be sold: a row of kittens on the bottom with a row of cages full of puppies on the bottom. It was noisy: puppies barking, kittens mewing, birds from another section of the shop calling and of course people going back and forth.

We walked straight out again into the car park where we happened to come across an RSPCA inspector getting into her van. We told her about the shop and our concerns. She told us that there was nothing she could do but that if we wanted to complain we should ring Enfield council as they were the people that give the licences for these places and the RSPCA report line if we felt so inclined.

I did both these things. Enfield council told me the shop had been given a licence so clearly their inspectors were happy with it. The RSPCA said the same thing, that if the council was happy then it was clearly fine.

Well, no it isn't fine. These animals were clearly bred by puppy farmers, probably in awful condition, and the council and the RSPCA were effectively encouraging it. and then people were going into these kind of shop without any thought or care and buying these poor creatures.

Admittedly it was some years ago, and I'm not sure how much things have changed but it really shocked us at the time that both the council and the RSPCA had it in their power to tried to help stamp out these places but were actively doing all they could to keep them in business.

[pigsDOfly]

that should be a row of 'puppies on the top'

[Bubble2bubble]

Have to admit, before watching the puppy farming programme last night I actually didn't know you still buy a puppy in a pet shop, as it's something I had never seen and presumed was banned years ago .
Again, no idea how anyone could think it was a good idea. Again, council licences justifying what is clearly cruel and just wrong.

[pigsDOfly]

Yes Bubble I also thought the selling of puppies and kittens in pet shops had been banned years ago, which was why I was so shocked to see them in that shop six years ago.

I didn't watch the puppy programme last night, cowardly I know, but I just couldn't bring myself to. I've read so much about what goes on in some of these places and seen from other programmes and I just couldn't face it I'm ashamed to say.

[Pogmella]

Did anyone see that 'Pick your deal puppy' show on BBC2? One guy got an 'apoo' type x from a really ropy place, I was surprised they showed it.

[Bubble2bubble]

The presenter did suggest the health checks he should ask for, which he did, but then bought the puppy anyway even though the answers the 'breeder' gave were far from acceptable.
It would have been more helpful to show him asking the questions about health testing and then walking away when he found out that the tests hadn't been done.

[QueenOnAPlate]

I did watch the programme, and while the place he got the puppy looked commercial, it didn't ring huge alarm bells for me ( as a novice) - I can see why he would have thought it was ok. What made it look dodgy? I know she didn't do MRI scans, but a lot of breeders don't because of the cost?

[Pogmella]

Well, to me, she described the mum as her pet yet they were housed in commercial settings. She also freely volunteered 'she only has one litter a year' which worried me. They're only meant to have 3 in a lifetime and one a year is hardly a high standard of care- I wouldn't want to gave a baby every year... All together it just seemed a bit cowboy. We got our pup from a family kitchen, visited 4 times and regularly exchanged photos. The breeder had more questions for US about our home set up, insurance and training plans... Just a different dynamic.

[Pogmella]

I mean, it looked clean and safe I guess, but the programme should surely be showing best practice and the potential for those dogs to have been farmed was imho pretty high.

[Queenbean]

I only realised about puppy farms after reading about it on MN. I know that sounds hugely naive but given I'd never heard of them, I wouldn't have know to do so iyswim.

It breaks my heart to know of those little puppies needing a home - what happens if people don't buy them? Where do they go?

[pud1]

Reading this thread has really got me worried. I am going to view a litter tonight. They are only 1 week old. I expect to see then with there mum but what else should I look for/ask.

[TrionicLettuce]

I know she didn't do MRI scans, but a lot of breeders don't because of the cost?

For most breeds it's not necessary but for CKCSs it's vital, regardless whether they're being bred to another CKCS or another breed. Syringomyelia is a terrible condition and has become prevalent in the CKCS. Unfortunately whilst rare it's also not unknown in most of the breeds cavs are commonly crossed with (toy/miniature poodles, bichons, etc.) so simply crossing a CKCS with something else is no guarantee the resulting puppies will be free from it.

[Pogmella]

pud1 that's great that you care, and don't worry, a good breeder won't push you to choose or make your mind up on the spot. We viewed our pup's litter at 2 weeks and put £100 down on a bitch, but didn't choose until they were 6 weeks old and we could see their personalities. We had owned the breed previously so were reasonably confident, but we asked what the most annoying thing about the mum was, how often they exercised her, did she moult/need grooming... I think that was it! First viewing tbh we just played with the mum, the pups were too tiny to really make any judgements on. We liked that the mum had the same habits and demeanour as our last much loved dog so felt comfortable committing quickly.

[Pogmella]

Also, we asked to put a deposit down- breeder did not request us to and was happy for us to go away and think about it. Didn't say anything pushy like 'We've got more people coming tomorrow' etc.