Housetraining Woes!!

[mummyflood]

Our almost 11 week old cocker is gorgeous. He really is. To look at, that is.

Thought we were making some progress last week. We have him crated overnight - absolutely no problems from day one. Sleeps through, no mess at all. During the day he has the run of the kitchen. We started off with puppy pads, but after reading lots about confusion did away with them and now use the ''constant vigilance'' method, taking him out between 30 and 40 min intervals - except for approx 1.5 hour gap while I am at work (sometimes less, depends if DH comes in before me). He seemed to have started to go towards the back door when he needed a no. 1, and we were having very few accidents.

This week it has completely gone to pot. This morning for example, in the space of 50 mins, most of which I have been in the same room with him and the back door has been open, I have cleaned up 3 lots of piss and one lot of poo...2 lots of piss I caught him doing with no warning whatsoever, the poo happened in the space of 5 mins when I was in the other room. This is a bit of a pattern, he seems to have a poo and wee 'fest' most mornings. On a couple of these occasions I had taken him out seconds earlier

I have started giving him a firm 'no, naughty' when I have caught him in the act, and putting him outside for a minute or so while I clean it up. He does seem to know what this means - if I dont physically catch him straight away he shoots off into his bed.

I know he is still very much a baby...but am I REALLY expecting too much for him to have got no idea at all yet, and to be making no indication whatsoever that he wants to go out...also, I have read that it may be an idea to use a different word for a poo (when we take him out, we say ''do you want to go out'', praise whilst he is performing, and massive praise afterwards whilst saying ''did you go out? good boy'' etc. but if so, how do I introduce this now?

All advice would be gratefully received...apologies for the early morning epic, end of a long frustrating week

[FarrowandBallAche]

He's still very young so will not be able to tell you when he needs the toilet.

So after every meal, drink and playtime take him out, the same when he wakes up or comes out of his crate other than those examples take him out every 30 mins.

Use a command as soon as you see him wee - I use ' be quick '.

Say it in a certain time. Quite high pitched. Say it many times whilst he's weeing. As soon as he's finished make the biggest fuss of him. Clap, shout hooray! Cuddle him. Give him a treat.

Do this every time.

He will soon get it.

[FarrowandBallAche]

A certain tone not time.

[georgedawes]

Don't tell him off, he's not being naughty and it might mean hr ends up scared to go in front of you.

[TrionicLettuce]

I have started giving him a firm 'no, naughty' when I have caught him in the act, and putting him outside for a minute or so while I clean it up. He does seem to know what this means - if I dont physically catch him straight away he shoots off into his bed.

As well as what FarrowandBallAche has already said I'd also stop telling him off when you catch him in the act. You run the risk of him becoming worried about toileting in front of you, especially if he's already running away because he's anticipating it when he has an accident.

[Springermum1350]

I remember last year I thought my springer had got it. Was so happy. And then one day bam.... He went on the carpet. I could have cried.

But then after that nothing. It was just a blip. I would just keep trying. They will get there

[FarrowandBallAche]

Any accidents are down to the owner taking their eye off the ball. I don't think you can do that until a puppy is at least 6/7 months old and even then they need asking regularly if they need a wee.

[mummyflood]

farrow - exactly what I am trying to do! neighbours probably think i'm completely barmy! However, eg this morning - took him out as soon as I came into kitchen, did a huge wee and a poo. Less than 5 mins later, another wee on the floor...and so on, see my second paragraph, culminating in 3 inside wees and a poo all in the space of 50 mins... He also did 2 more in quick succession within the following 40 mins or so. It's a case of dodge the mess - vigilance out of the window, doesn't apply!

Is there any chance this could have anything to do with excitement/pleased to see me after 7hrs through the night etc - two reasons for asking. I understand spaniels are known for ''excitement weeing'' regardless of age, eg when greeting someone, and also, I have realised this has happened pretty much every morning this week, but seems to stop after a couple of hours or so and he then is a lot better on the 30 min /after nap etc method. It was not like this the first couple of weeks after he came to us.

As far as the not telling him off goes. I have only done this when I have actually caught him mid-wee/poo. I understand totally that there is no point at all if it is discovered after the fact, and would never dream of the old-fashioned ''rubbing his nose in it'' or anything like that. Telling him 'no' and popping him outside if caught is something I have read several times...but it's better to ignore the bad and praise the good, yes?

[LeaLeander]

He is way too young and you are making a huge mistake to chastise him.

Mine is five and still does "glee pee" when he is happy and excited. It has nothing to do with the functional relieving himself.

He's also a secure, jaunty little mutt and I would not want to intimidate him and scare him just to stop that. I open the door, he runs outside, jumps with glee, emits a few droplets and we go on.

[georgedawes]

But how do you know he'll think the telling off is for toileting inside rather than just toileting? By all means put him outside to see if will go there but I wouldn't tell him off personally.

[FarrowandBallAche]

30/40 intervals are too long. When they're up and about it needs to be every 10/15 mins. If you can't watch him pop him in the crate.

Tbh I don't let a puppy have ' free run ' of any room. They are either being watched or in a crate.

Excitement weeing is normally a small trickle not a big wee so I'm not sure he's doing that and at 10 weeks it could be too soon.

Go back to basics with him. Have patience and you will get there.

He's only tiny still

[Floralnomad]

If you catch him mid wee/poo scoop him up and run outside with him then tell him how wonderful he is .

[Roseberrry]

Just keep going, he will get there. If you feel he is going backwards in progress then go back to basics and take him out every 10 - 15 minutes, don't give him a seconds chance to do it inside.
If you catch him in the act just do a quick "outside!" and rush him out.

No need for lots of praise when he does go out imo, it can be confusing. A quiet good boy is enough to let him know and then a play around the garden.

[mummyflood]

Right. I understood the idea of ignore the undesirable and praise the desirable alternative, but would like to address some of the later comments.

LeeLeander - I am definitely NOT trying to intimidate or scare him!! I think I would be a totally unsuitable person to own a dog if that was my intention! I personally don't think a verbal ''no'' falls in this category, nor does putting him outside - where is obviously ultimately where he is supposed to go - but if this is going to be counter productive then I am open to advice from seasoned dog owners (incidentally we are not first-timers, however I am going back 12 years when our previous dog was a pup so accept I have probably forgotten aspects of puppyhood)

Georgedawes - how do I know that he will think the telling off is for toileting inside rather than just toileting - because, as said above, he gets massive praise, celebrations and a treat when he goes outside - I was under the impression that, coupled with taking him outside, a 'no' would distinguish between the right and wrong place to go. He ''celebrates'' himself when he has ''been'' outside and whilst I am making a fuss of him... As I said, I have read/heard several times that this could be effective...obviously that is not the concensus of opinion on this thread,

Roseberry, why do you feel lots of praise when he does go out can be confusing?

[Roseberrry]

This puts it better than I ever could. I think over praising is confusing for a dog who still wants to go in the house.

[FarrowandBallAche]

But leaving a puppy to his own devices isn't fair because of course he's going to pee!

Watch him at all times or crate when you can't. Take out frequently and praise.

Always worked for me and everyone I know.

[TrionicLettuce]

This is from an article by Sally Bradbury:

Why punishment does not work for house training.

A typical morning in the life of an 8 week old pup:

7:00am Puppy pees in the garden – Owner present. Gets praised

7.30am Puppy pees in the kitchen – Owner present. Gets a reprimand

8:15am Puppy pees in the lounge – Owner not present. Nothing happens except relief

9:00am Puppy pees in the lounge – Owner present. Gets a reprimand

9:30 am Puppy pees in the kitchen – Owner not present. Nothing, just relief

11:00am Puppy pees in the garden – Owner doesn’t notice Just relief again

11:30am Puppy pees under the dining room table – Owner not present. Nothing happens

12:15pm Puppy pees in the garden – Owner present – gets praise

What we think we are teaching puppy is that it is good to pee in the garden and wrong to pee in the house but what the pup is actually learning is that sometimes it is rewarding to pee when the owner is present and sometimes it is dangerous. However it is always safe to go when the owner is not present and that so far the safest place is under the dining room table.