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WKD Dogs

(93 Posts)
DaysofSummer Fri 25-Sep-15 12:31:35

I was wondering if anyone has had any experience of WKD dogs, who are a dog training company based in Stone. They have some dogs for sale at the moment, but I was trying to find out if they are a reputable company before I make an enquiry to them with regards to purchase. Many thanks.

CaptainKit Fri 25-Sep-15 12:49:38

Initial look at their website makes me feel a little uneasy;

If for some reason you aren't able to find exactly what you are looking for, we are able to provide dogs of any breed, age and gender for any purpose.

Sounds like a puppy factory; producing dogs on demand.

Maria19661004 Sun 16-Oct-16 22:50:28

Did you ever get a dog through WKD? Any info on them as I am interested in getting a dog and thought about using them?

TrionicLettuce Sun 16-Oct-16 23:43:56

Just had a look at their website and I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole.

It appears they breed a lot of the dogs themselves but there's very little information about the dogs they use for breeding (like health tests, working/competition/showing credentials, temperament testing, etc.) or the set up they have. The wording on the 'Breeding' page suggests they breed a lot (puppies of several different breeds "available throughout the years") so it's probably unlikely all these litters are all being raised in a home environment which is really what you want if you're after a family pet.

There's also very little information about where they get the dogs which they don't breed. No decent breeder is going to let their pups go to a third party to train up and then sell on again.

If you want a dog without having to deal with the puppy/teenage stage (which is totally understandable!!) then a reputable rescue who can match you up with the best dog to suit your family and lifestyle is a far better bet.

There's really no such thing as a "ready made dog". They'll all need some degree of training and it's something that's ongoing throughout a dog's life, you don't just train them when they're young and leave it at that.

BernardsarenotalwaysSaints Mon 17-Oct-16 17:27:27

Trionic Have you seen the prices they charge?! Bloody ridiculous!

Maria I saw their adverts a lot when I was looking a for a Golden pups/ breeders. They scream puppy farm to me.

Pippin8 Mon 17-Oct-16 18:50:06

I know they say they come fully trained, but they've most likely not been treated or socialised.

You'd probably end up with a robot dog, with no personality & behavioural issues.

I agree with approaching a reputable rescue. Spaniel Aid UK often have fully trained dogs that have just been given up due to marriage splits or owners working too long hours.

Booboostwo Mon 17-Oct-16 19:43:36

You'd have to be insane, not just clueless but downright insane, to buy a dog from such 'breeders'.

Ilovehedgehogs Mon 17-Oct-16 19:53:11

It amazes me that anyone would consider them, I thought that people were becoming more educated about puppy farming lately?

Bubble2bubble Mon 17-Oct-16 20:46:51

That's seriously nuts.
The look in the eyes of many of those 'pre-trained family dogs' makes me very sad.
Where are all those dogs coming from?
Awful, just awful

MatthewWigginsWKD Mon 24-Oct-16 14:01:58

Good Afternoon,

My name is Matthew Wiggins and I am the director of WKD Trained Dogs Ltd.
I am always amazed with people's ability to draw and air their own opinions based on pure speculation.
I am not here to get in to a debate or discussion regarding what we do at WKD but wish to set the record straight on a number of comments that have been made.

Firstly, at WKD, our mission is to improve the lives of Dogs and People around the world through the supply of individually matched and trained Companions, residential training for difficult Dogs, education for owners and the supply of dogs for assistance roles.

We only work with dogs that range between 10 and 24 months of age and do not breed or purchase puppies. We used to temperament test, purchase and train puppies a number of years ago and agree that our website is out of date which may have lead to people reaching such a conclusion.

All of our dogs are sourced from genuine family circumstances and we do not re-train difficult dogs. We are looking to match a client with as close to the perfect dog in an untrained state before complimenting that dog with great training which achieves a happy and interactive dog which can accompany the family on the majority of their outings.

We do not produce robots, fund or partake in any breeding practices or mistreat the dogs we work with.
We do help hundreds of dogs and owners each year achieve the rare experience of owning a dog which can fully integrate with their life without compromise. We do save many dogs from being rehomed or worse on a yearly basis.
We do assist many people with additional needs through the correct selection and integration of a dog which can improve their life.

For anybody who is genuinely interested in what we do at WKD or has any concerns regarding our organisation I would encourage you to contact us either by email, telephone or visit us in person.

We also have a number of articles available via email which give a full overview of what we do and the work of myself and my team of dedicated dog lovers.

Kind regards,

Matt Wiggins

manicmummy79 Mon 24-Oct-16 14:40:26

We bought our Hungarian Viszla from WKD dogs and I thought i'd share our experience.
I admit that looking at the webpage it all seems a bit vague shall we say - i assure you, if you pick up the phone and speak to the team they will explain everything in minute detail to you.
They are extremely professional - there is no airy, fairy, fluffy sales pitch - they handle a lot of dogs for different purposes - gundogs, competitive dogs, close protection dogs, police and army dogs mostly and of course the trained family dogs. Believe me they know what they are doing!
All the dogs are well socialised, energetic but obedient and trained as a normal dog so to speak to begin with - with the usual basic commands and then, depending on the role that particular dog will go on to fulfill - they are specifically trained to the exact requirements - i.e if you travel on the tube everyday - they train your dog to travel on the tube and any other specific requirement you might have.
We visited our dog every week during her training at their premises - which are clean but functional (as you'd expect at a kennels).
Being an extremely busy family, we wanted a dog to complete our home but i was wary of taking on a puppy and then not being able to give it the time to be consistent in that critical early training. We were able to tell wkd what type of dog we wanted and lay out our requirements in terms of training ........ then comes the important bit - you have to wait ....... there is no long string of sad faces waiting for you to pick them and take them home - your dog is sourced specifically for you to your requirements from working dogs which for whatever reason have not made the grade.
Our dog was to be a scent dog and was frankly a bit pants at following a scent therefore her temperament, size, breed, sex, and trainability were matched to our needs and we then were given the option after meeting her as to whether to allow them to continue her training to our needs or wait for another suitable dog to view.
This is an extremely tailored way to ensure you buy a dog that will fit easily into your home and/or work environment. You pay a lot of money because a) you get a fully papered pedigree dog b) that dog is exactly trained to meet your needs as a owner as well as being a 'normal' dog - you get the best of both worlds - i can take our dog absolutely anywhere and she will remain completely obedient to my command but with a gentle tap on her side and an 'ok' from me - i can release her from her concentrated 'work' mode and she becomes a totally bonkers, raving loony, play with the kids, chase the ball, jump in the river, cuddle on the sofa, sleep on the bed perfectly normal well adjusted house dog.
c) wkd continue to offer support and advice with your dog for the duration of its life
d) your dog is passported, health checked, vaccinated and microchipped for you.
Its been worth every penny for us - but everyone has their own opinions - i just thought it would be fair to share our experience.
I at no point saw any mistreatment or mass breeding of any kind - my understanding is that litters are bred to demand from registered animals and the entire litter is usually already allocated to customers with waiting lists.
The handlers are extremely professional and you are given a very comprehensive handover before you take your dog home.
Their administration team are excellent and you are given updates and emails regarding your dog throughout the process.

All in all we have had no concerns whatsoever. I should point out that we are a couple in our late 30's who run our own business, we have 2 children who are 14 and 5, 4 horses, 2 motorbikes and a partridge in a pear tree!! Our dog does the school run, the horses, a day in the office, school run again, hacking, horse shows or whatever else we are up to and is 12 months old.

TrionicLettuce Mon 24-Oct-16 14:58:22

We only work with dogs that range between 10 and 24 months of age and do not breed or purchase puppies.

“Expert Trainers, Breeders and Suppliers of Working Dogs”

WKD Dogs - Breeding

"We aim to breed and supply exceptional quality working dogs......"

"The majority of the puppies we breed......."

"We spend a long time researching bloodlines, travelling far and wide and testing potential breeding stock....."

"We currently have German Shepherd puppies, Belgian Shepherd (Malinois) puppies, Labrador puppies and Springer Spaniel puppies available throughout the year."

Odd that you wouldn't think to remove that page (or the word "breeders" from the website header) given that 1) apparently you don't breed at all and 2) it really makes you look like a puppy farm.

MatthewWigginsWKD Mon 24-Oct-16 15:24:26

Taken on board and I agree how it may look. The puppies page has a broken link deliberately. We are due to launch a new site in a couple of weeks time. The current site was built a long time ago and due to being do trainers rather than business/marketing experts and also being extremely busy the website has not been a priority for us. Up until now, nobody has publicly called us out for being puppy farmers. Now they have we will address the cause of misunderstanding.

Thanks for your input, it's appreciated.

Regards

Matt

Booboostwo Mon 24-Oct-16 21:15:42

I remember my mum sending our GSD off for training in the 1980s...surprisingly it did not work.

suzfill80 Thu 23-Feb-17 08:48:16

We can speak from experience unfortunately it wasn't a good one as we had a dog mis matched to us when when specifically gave our lifestyle requirements etc the dog we had wasn't happy with the hours we were away and had a lot of anxieties the problem was we became attached to her quickly and it was extremely hard to give her back after persevering for some time as we were advised that it could possibly be settling in issues. Once we finally did this the company only gave half our money back. I found the company overall unprofessional as all correspondence were done via whatsapp messenger and it took many many weeks to get them to come down to visit which made it more difficult as we became more attached to the dog. Annoyingly we thought we had researched the concept of this and spent months thinking how we could sensibly get a dog whilst working full time and ended up paying a lot and losing a lot of money when it didn't work out.

Hoppinggreen Thu 23-Feb-17 09:05:31

I don't have an idea about this company but suz anyone who would tell you that you could get a dog and work full time ( assuming no daycare or frequent dog walker visits) shouldn't be don't say how many hours " you would be away" but any more than 4 is too much and a professional company should know that.

suzfill80 Thu 23-Feb-17 09:56:13

I agree its what I thought anyway but i trusted this concept amd as i say it backfired massively on us emotionally and financially. Hence why we gave her back to hope that she now goes somewhere suitable we was away around 9 hours per day, but the company so this isn't an issue as they crate train the dogs, but after seeing it i agree its not right. Thanks

Hoppinggreen Thu 23-Feb-17 15:53:16

9 hours????
Any company who says that's ok are total liars and we're they actually suggesting putting a dog in a crate for that long?
I'm sorry but I do partially blame you too suz , common sense should tell you that's wrong no matter what anyone else said

Shambolical1 Thu 23-Feb-17 16:04:47

"I agree its what I thought anyway but i trusted this concept amd as i say it backfired massively on us emotionally and financially. Hence why we gave her back to hope that she now goes somewhere suitable we was away around 9 hours per day, but the company so this isn't an issue as they crate train the dogs, but after seeing it i agree its not right. Thanks"

No reputable or sensible dog breeder or rescue organisation is would send a dog somewhere it will be left alone for nine hours a day. That's just setting up for failure and a lot of stress; dogs do not enjoy long periods of isolation and many (many!) can't cope with it.

Sorry but even with the updated information here I would be pointing my barge-pole elsewhere. What are these 'genuine family circumstances' these adolescent dogs are coming from and how are they 'sourced'? What training methods are being used - what qualifications/memberships do the trainers have?

Apart from anything else it all seems totally soulless. Surely getting a puppy or dog, getting to know it, bonding with it, training it yourself so that it genuinely becomes part of your family is all part of the experience (on both sides)? Taking the bad with the good and learning from it?

It shouldn't be a matter of handing over the money and buying just another 'thing' you think you ought to have to go with the Range Rover now you've moved to the country. Seen that too often.

And buying a puppy/dog just because you want one and because someone will sell you one doesn't mean you should! No offence to the 9-hour-away poster but many people try to buy or rescue a dog and are turned down for that (very good) reason. Later you hear they've bought one anyway. Wait a few months and the dog's on GumTree because 'we don't have time for her'.

Shambolical1 Thu 23-Feb-17 16:12:10

*random 'is'.

Good grief I've just looked at the 'dogs for sale' page.
Quite a number of telling facial expressions there.

suzfill80 Thu 23-Feb-17 16:47:45

Shambolica maybe you could find out you seem very knowledgeable about owning, training dogs.

pigsDOfly Thu 23-Feb-17 17:08:39

Just realised this is a thread from the end of last year so not sure if it's relevant to the OP any more.

However, just had a quick look at their dogs for sale page and couldn't agree more Shambolical, not one of those dogs has the alert, up for it look of a healthy happy dog. My dog has a 'smile' in her eyes, none of those dogs has that.

But if, as Suzfill says, they are telling people it's okay to keep a dog in crate for 9 hours at a stretch it will give anyone a good indication of how they view dogs.

Shambolical1 Thu 23-Feb-17 17:47:06

I'm hoping Mr Wiggins might respond, because I can't find anything on their website regarding training/behaviour qualifications (or rather qualifications are mentioned, in some cases, but not where they were gained - or if they're current - dog training and behavioural knowledge has moved on a lot in the past couple of decades).

There's no mention of membership of professional organisations, either.

None of this is legally necessary, as unfortunately dog training isn't yet a regulated industry. Anyone can set themselves up as the local dog whisperer and plenty do. The more professional end of the trade though is working to bring about recognisable standards so that potential customers can make an informed choice and their dogs can be trained happily and humanely preferably as a team working together.

Having a kennel licence from the local authority isn't much of an indicator of quality - most puppy farms have that. Selling KC registered pedigree dogs, ditto; the KC register is just that. Somebody has paid a fee to add the dog's name into the register. The only requirement is for the dog's ancestors to have been listed there before it. It does not guarantee anything else about the dog other than its breed.

Another thing I noticed on the 'Dogs for Sale' page is there's no mention of health screening. Most of the breeds featured have known and very common health issues but nothing is said.

Almost none of those dogs has a happy, relaxed expression and more than a few are just plain scared.

user1490194023 Wed 22-Mar-17 15:16:45

Helen and I purchased our English Springer Spaniel Max from WKD in May 2016. Initially we swallowed hard at the cost, however, it has proved to be money very well spent. At our first meeting we met 4 dogs of different breeds to help both establish the most suitable dog for us and demonstrate the temperaments and training of typical WKD dogs. Only 2 of the 4 dogs were available for purchase and it was explained that the normal process was for the customers to be assessed to facilitate the best possible matching of the dog to the family concerned.
In this case, we fell head over heels for the Spaniel that we met and placed our order. The "interview" style presentation worked very well for us being inclusive and friendly as well as clearly explaining what we could expect.
Then followed a month's wait while Max continued his training taking into account our specific requests that he be happy around horses, in a car, in the High Street and in an office environment. During his training we received email updates with photos and we visited Max after the second week so that we could introduce him to my daughter's dog.
Max was fully health checked by a local vet and when we collected him he was chipped, had received all of his appropriate vaccinations and treatments and had a passport.
Handover day came and we experienced an exhaustive and thoroughly professional handover detailing the best way to care for Max and the correct techniques for maintaining his training.
The whole experience has been most rewarding. Throughout the process the trainers have been approachable and professional whilst clearly having strong affection for their charges. The young lady who did our handover was thoroughly professional right up until it came time for us to leave when she became quite emotional to see Max go.
The WKD involvement continues, we have approached Matt and the ladies for advice on a number of occasions and this has been freely given without charge. We are engaging with Matt shortly for some additional training for Max (and us) and are very much looking forward to this experience.
In short, Max has made a huge positive impact on our lives and the decision to invest in a fully trained dog has been fully vindicated. WKD have delivered exactly what they promised and there has never been any suggestion of puppy farming or poor treatment of any of the dogs that we have seen at their premises. Max is a happy, energetic two year old Springer and a terrific endorsement of WKD and their methods and dog welfare approach.

Shambolical1 Wed 22-Mar-17 15:47:06

I'm glad you're happy with your dog and your dog is happy with you. Since Mr Wiggins hasn't responded and as you're going back, perhaps you could ask:

From where are their dogs sourced?

What training methods are used to produce a 'fully trained' dog in one month?

Of which, if any, Professional association is he/are they members and what, if any, qualifications does he/do they hold?

What happens to unsold dogs?

I'm haunted by the tense and unhappy faces of those dogs for sale on the WKD website.

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