To neuter or not?

[amillionusernameslater]

Our dog is 18months and I think he desperately needs neutering whereas dh does not. He...the dog not dh...humps a lot and chases other dogs, wees on walks every three seconds and gets his lipstick out a lot! He used to have great recall and then his hormones kicked in. Now I worry about letting him off lead although mostly it is ok.

Dh thinks neutering is cruel and it is not a human's place to make such decisions that are irreversible and not natural for the sake of our own convenience! I counter this that in that case he shouldn't have a dog at all because surely pets are living in a non-natural way.

I do the walks six of seven days a week at least and nearly all the looking after. Our dogsitters x 2 (one does very occasional days if I have to go to a meeting, the other when we go on holiday) are still taking him slightly reluctantly but both think he needs the op.

I think dh reckons it is his boy bits that would get snipped not the dog's!!

[tabulahrasa]

Neutering may or may not stop the humping... It will not stop him scentmarking every blade of grass or fix his dog manners or his recall.

[SurlyCue]

Neuter. Your DH is an idiot being silly. Bring him to a rehoming centre and show him all the dogs needing homes. A dog with bad recall is extremely likely to end up populating some of those kennels. And you (both of you) would be directly responsible for that.

[SurlyCue]

Dh thinks neutering is cruel and it is not a human's place to make such decisions that are irreversible and not natural for the sake of our own convenience!

What does he feed your dog? Does he have him vaccinated? Treated for worms and fleas? Would he have the dog's leg operated on if it had an accident? (due to bad recall and getting run over)

[tabulahrasa]

Oh...and I always neuter btw, but, it's not a magic operation and won't fix training issues.

Or peeing, that's just a boy thing.

[amillionusernameslater]

I know Surly...have told him all that. It is inconsistent!
Erm don't hold me responsible, I am desperate to get him 'done' but not willing to do it without his other owner's (i.e. Dh)!agreement.

[SurlyCue]

Why is he DH's dog? Youve only had him 18 months at most so you got him when together. Hes your dog. You dont need DH permission to act in the best interests of the dog.

[pigsDOfly]

You say it's mostly ok to let him off the lead OP.

Someone I became friendly with whilst dog walking in the park was devastated when her unneutered dog, in an effort to get to a bitch in season, ran across the road and into the path of a car and was killed outright.

Is your DH happy to take that sort of risk, or are you going to keep the dog on the lead for the rest of its life, just in case.

[SurlyCue]

And yes, if you are doing 6 out of 7 walks with an unneutered dog without reliable recall then yes, you would be very much responsible if he fathered a litter or three.

[catzpyjamas]

Maybe you could point out the health benefits as explained here by the British Veterinary Association:

BVA website

"Welfare benefits of castration for dogs
Castration rarely produces undesirable changes in temperament. Any weight change can be controlled by management of the diet. There is little problem with male guide dogs that are all castrated. Veterinary advice should always be sought on each individual case. Benefits of castration include:

It limits straying, particularly in response to bitches in season, which causes nuisance and unwanted litters
As a treatment for excessive and unacceptable sexual behaviour towards bitches, people and inanimate objects
For medical reasons eg. to prevent or remove testicular tumours or reduce perianal adenoma or prostatic hyperplasia
As a treatment in some cases of dominance aggression. The use of anti-androgenic hormone injections can often give an indication as to whether castration can be helpful."

[amillionusernameslater]

Surly, I am doing my best to sort this out but as he is owned by both of us I cannot bring myself to take the dog to the vets behind dh's back and without agreement.
So making me feel bad isn't helpful. I am looking for advice on persuading dh not a guilt trip on a situation I am trying to solve.

Dh says he has seen the medical evidence but there is as much saying do not do it and hence in Scandinavia, neutering is banned,

[SurlyCue]

I'm sorry OP. I was a bit harsh last night. I was on my soapbox. This is a personal bugbear of mine. Personally, neutering is a discussion to be had and agreed on before any dog viewing is even done. However, thats no use to you now. If i was in your shoes now, i would absolutely take the dog with or without his "consent" and have it neutered. If you really cant do that then i would be cancelling the dog walkers and refusing to take the dog out until it was done. However, i have the sneaking suspicion that wouldnt bother your DH much.

[amillionusernameslater]

That is a fair and good point that it is a discussion for before people even get a dog. Too late for us indeed.
We agreed early on that we would wait and see if it became a problem. In my view it has in his view it has not! Stalemate.

The dog walker does about one day a month on average so it is really me. Suppose I could go on strike!! When I threatened that he said he would organise a dog walker himself but I can't let that happen as it would be silly to pay someone daily when I can do it. Plus it's easier to just walk him that wait in for a walker to pick up and drop off.

Hmmm tricky. He is the kind of person who thinks he knows better than the vets and any other professionals in other situations!!

[catzpyjamas]

Norway has approx 450,000 dogs compared to 8.5 million in the UK. It has a bigger landmass and lower human population too so the dogs do not live in such close quarters. Norway does not have a stray dog population. There is anecdotal evidence to suggest a high number of dogs bitten by other dogs in Norway too.
The legislation in Norway was amended in 2010. Dogs can now be neutered to improve their quality of life, including being able to socialise with other dogs.
However, I suspect your DH is never going to agree to your dog being neutered no matter how many facts you produce though.

[CalmYourselfTubbs]

neuter him. no question.
there are enough unwanted animals both feral and domesticated in the UK.
and there are too many pets in the UK as it is anyway.

[MakingBaking]

My DP is the same a yours million. But we've agreed that we will seriously consider getting him done as he nears the 18 months-2 years mark as he is a large breed (GSDX) so for bone development and we want him to have the right hormons to make him confident as they're prone to fear issues etc.

But I do think that when it comes to it he will be stubborn so I'm watching with interest if you can persuade your DH to consent to it.

[SistersofPercy]

I could have written this two months ago....

18 month old scottie, suddenly found the desire to hump, stopped listening to anything you said, peed up everything on a walk and finally bit our postman (he was in my arms, postie stroked him as he had done many times and he snapped ).
His balls were gone two days later.

He's taken a few weeks to settle, he became a bit anxious for a week or two after the op but four weeks on he's much improved. He's still a bit grumpy with strangers but that's a Scottie trait I'm trying to train him out of, but humping and peeing had stopped and he's doing as he's told again.

The longer you leave him marking the more habit forming it will become, ask your dh if he'd be comfortable constantly squeezing out a wee? Not ideal for his bladder health either.

[amillionusernameslater]

Sisters, sounds encouraging.

Makingbaking, yep think I will never persuade him as the more I push it, the more he entrenches. Frustrating when it should be more my decision anyway. The other thing that worries me is whenever anything generally happens like this, if something goes wrong e.g. dog changed for the worse in this case, I would never ever hear the end of it and how bad my judgment was.

Catz - yep, already mentioned that to dh about it being far less populated although I didn't know about the law change so that is very useful info next time he rolls that one out...!!

[Catzeyess]

Tell your DH it's the kindest thing for him.

Ask him how he would like it if was never ever allowed to have sex/'relieve' himself - probably very frustrated/distracted and miserable. That's how his dog will feel for the rest of his life unless he is neutered.

[goddies]

neutering really doesn't guarantee any behavioural changes,but the chemical [temporary] castration could give you an indication and your DH may go for this option in favour of removal of crown jewels, but no, dogs don't live 'wild'.. they are so much the domesticated creatures, and just like us [if we had our norks and stuff removed] this would reduce the risk of cancer for those bits, but also increase the other risks associated with lack of hormones (which control vital processes).

As for procreating... well thats down to responsible bitch owners keeping their girls well out of the way at the appropriate short window of opportunity and if the dog roams for a bitch in heat, even then getting the snip might not stop it.

Bitches also stop to scent mark regularly, but it can all be behaviourly changed. If you walk with your dog on the kerb side of the road away from walls and peemail spots they will break their association with them.

[goddies]

sorry didn't mean to intimate that your DH may go for chemical castration! I just read that back i meant in the dog of course

[amillionusernameslater]

Oh believe me at times that is tempting with dh too :)

[Scuttlebutter]

Stopping for peemails isn't a problem - hurtling off after bitches is - it can and does lead to road accidents, escapes, and dogs hanging round bitches' houses. It absolutely is a welfare issue for male dogs. Ask your partner to research the cost/worry of reclaiming a dog from your local pound (you might have a nasty surprise at how expensive it is) and even if your dog is insured, a road accident will involve vet fees, and potentially Third Party claims (I hope your insurance cover is good and covers you for this).

Comparisons with Scandinavia really aren't helpful - populations are considerably smaller and the dog owning/training culture is very, very different. Here, it is quite common for bitch owners to walk their dogs while in season, in busy, well used parks, on streets etc. There have been regular posts here in the Doghouse where many owners admit to doing this. Preventing unwanted litters is the responsibility of both the owners of dogs and bitches.

As pet owners, we often forget the absolutely horrific death toll of unwanted dogs back in the 70s and 80s before spay/neuter became widespread. We still have thousands of dogs killed in council pounds each year when they reach their seven days. Why would a responsible pet owner want to even risk being a part of that? Rescues already deal wiht a tidal wave of unwanted dogs. Ask your partner to volunteer at a local shelter for a couple of weeks - he might change his mind after seeing the effects of his sensitivity.